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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

Groose

Mod Note: As we are getting rather tired of seeing reports about this. The use of the word Remoaners  is to cease. Either posts like adults, or don't post at all. The mod warnings have been clear.

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mort

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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27 minutes ago, Litotes said:

Batten down the hatches and watch the BeLeavers claim "It's not our fault".

 

Au revior

And the ERG members and all leavers MPs that did not vote for the deal?

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8 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Answering the last couple of posts about another referendum from the end of the last thread the options would be the same as before.

 

Leave or stay.

 

However if a Remain party or coalition won an election then the whole sorry mess could be sacked off altogether by simply revoking Article 50.

You asked me about Canada/US border controls. Because that thread has ceased, there is no quote facility, so I could not reply today.

Anyway all I wanted to say is yes you do need a passport, but it was only since 9/11. Prior to that a Canadian birth certificate or citizen ship card was all one needed to get across the border in either direction.It was that what I was talking about in my earlier post. Of course that all changed after that fateful day in 2011, especially as the terrrorists were known to have passed through Canada during their training for the attacks.

Sorry to interrupt your current conversation.

Edited by Ontarian1981

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4 minutes ago, Ontarian1981 said:

You asked me about Canada/US border controls. Because that thread has ceased, there is no quote facility, so I could not reply today.

Anyway all I wanted to say is yes you do need a passport, but it was only since 9/11. Prior to that a Canadian birth certificate or citizen ship card was all one needed to get across the border in either direction.It was that what I was talking about in my earlier post. Of course that all changed after that fateful day in 2011, especially as the terrrorists were known to have passed through Canada during their training for the attacks.

Sorry to interrupt your current conversation.

No problem. I had exactly the same thing trying to reply to posts at the end of ‘thread 7’.

 

The point I was making about the US/Canada border is that it is not a free and unprotected border, as you have always needed to prove identity (and therefore entitlement) to cross in either direction. The Irish border on the other hand, has never required any identity checks to cross it, even at the height of what was known as ‘the Troubles’.

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1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

If Ruth Davison wants to make a real difference tomorrow, she should resign from the Tory party and at a sweep make Johnson the Prime Minister of a minority government.

She's  an MSP so it's not going to ruin Boris day. That said once Scotland gets it's independence in the next year or two she might take a tilt at leading the smoking ruins of the conservative party.

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1 minute ago, tinfoilhat said:

She's  an MSP so it's not going to ruin Boris day. That said once Scotland gets it's independence in the next year or two she might take a tilt at leading the smoking ruins of the conservative party.

Yes, you are right. She is an MSP. 

 

For those Brexit supporters getting very excited about Johnson’s attempts to undermine democracy, let’s not forget that the Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act went through Parliament in less than 48 hours in 1974. 👍

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2 hours ago, Litotes said:

But hold on - the last referendum overturned that one and by doing so stamped all over the democratic choice of the people.

It didnt stamp all over the democratic choice of the people! People were given the democratic chance to change their minds which is something you keep on about but it seem that in that case you dont like it.

2 hours ago, Litotes said:

If they had the chance to overturn that one, we should have the chance to overturn this one - not time constrained, when the popular mandate wants it - which is now.

Who are we? Did you vote in the last referendum? 

2 hours ago, Litotes said:

But they can just as easily revoke the law - it's what democracy is all about.

I agree but you seem a bit confused as to what democracy is. 

13 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

That said once Scotland gets it's independence in the next year or two she might take a tilt at leading the smoking ruins of the conservative party.

Scotland can only get another vote if this government and parliament allow it.

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"There's this idea from some people that to deliver Brexit we should suspend our parliamentary democracy - that we should prorogue Parliament. But that goes against everything that those men who waded on to those beaches fought and died for (on D-Day) and I will not have it." Matt Hancock, Health & Social Care Secretary, Conservative leadership election, 2019.

 

"I think it's outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament. We are not Stuart kings." Amber Rudd, Work and Pensions Secretary, during the Conservative leadership election, 2019.

 

"You don't deliver on democracy by trashing democracy. We are not selecting a dictator of our country, we are selecting a prime minister of our country." Sajid Javid, then Home Secretary now Chancellor, Conservative leadership election, 2019.

 

"Proroguing Parliament is clearly a mad suggestion. You cannot say you are going to take back control and then go: 'Oh, by the way, we are just going to shut Parliament down for a couple of months, so we are just going to drift out on a no deal'." Nicky Morgan, Question Time, 2019

 

"I think it will be wrong for many reasons. I think it would not be true to the best traditions of British democracy." Michael Gove, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster on BBC's The Andrew Marr Show, 2019.

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1 hour ago, Dromedary said:

Scotland can only get another vote if this government and parliament allow it.

I think you will find that if the people of Scotland and Ireland want independence they will get it without having to go on bended knee to England.

 

This nonsense has the potential to tear this whole nation apart, leaving England and Wales in the smoking ruins.

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6 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I think you will find that if the people of Scotland and Ireland want independence they will get it without having to go on bended knee to England.

I think you will find that Scotland does not have the legal right in British or international law to declare unilateral independence. If they try then they are on a loser as they will also be rejected by the EU. Ireland is a completely different situation.

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14 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

I think you will find that Scotland does not have the legal right in British or international law to declare unilateral independence. If they try then they are on a loser as they will also be rejected by the EU. Ireland is a completely different situation.

I think that you will find that Johnson is tearing up British law as we speak.

 

If England decides to tear up international law as well, the EU will welcome Scotland with open arms. They said as much during the referendum in 2014. Only England and Wales voted for Brexit so it is only right that Scotland and Ireland should be allowed to walk away from the mess.

 

Remember, the UK is looking very foolish in the eyes of the world at the moment and Scotland will have many, many friends if they want to distance themselves from this public humiliation.

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15 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I think that you will find that Johnson is tearing up British law as we speak.

Unfortunately for you and others out there I think you will find that Johnson is not breaking or tearing up any laws at all. In fact, just like a barrister should, he is using them to his advantage. Maybe you could state what British laws you think he is tearing up?

15 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

If England decides to tear up international law as well, the EU will welcome Scotland with open arms. 

Who mentioned anything about England tearing up international law? The EU will not welcome Scotland unless it has left the UK by democratic means and according to the UK's own laws.

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5 hours ago, Dromedary said:

I think you will find that Scotland does not have the legal right in British or international law to declare unilateral independence. If they try then they are on a loser as they will also be rejected by the EU. Ireland is a completely different situation.

Scotland remains in the UK by permission of the citizens of Scotland. Once that permission is withdrawn, all bets are off.

 

Being forced into an unwanted outcome, by a remote government, acting undemocratically, is a good way to precipitate action.

 

If Boris goes through with this nonsense, he will go down in history as the man who broke the Union.

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