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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

Groose

Mod Note: As we are getting rather tired of seeing reports about this. The use of the word Remoaners  is to cease. Either posts like adults, or don't post at all. The mod warnings have been clear.

Message added by Groose

mort

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

Message added by mort

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46 minutes ago, Padders said:

That was 3yrs ago, I voted to leave..I am now being denied my democratic right to change my mind.

As the first democratically held referendum has not been fulfilled and implemented yet you are being denied nothing, and only parliament can make that decision to revoke A50. If they decide to now do that and hold another referendum then fair game. In a GE the same principle applies in that you vote, the Government is formed and if you don't like it you then get a chance to vote them out at a later date. This should follow those same rules.

 

18 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Only if you were to lose a second referendum.

Which is not necessary.

Edited by apelike

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26 minutes ago, RJRB said:

I have long argued that there should be a final run off between a Brexit Deal,and Remain,and what will be will be.

I think if there is to be a run-off then it should be deal or no-deal as remain was already a part of the first referendum question and shouldn't be used again.

 

Edited by apelike

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1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

No.

 

Surely, as a democrat, you accept all of the outcomes of our democratic institutions.

 

That will include our courts and our parliament.

 

Unless you are selective about the bits of democracy that you agree with. 

Since the democratic 2016 Referendum result our country has been divided.  Our country isn't  divided between Remainers and Leavers, but it is divided  between those who Respect Democracy and those who DON'T Respect Democracy.  I am in the Respect Democracy camp and support the way Boris has behaved  and what he has done since becoming  our country's Prime Minister because he is doing his very best to get the democratic 2016 EU Referendum result implemented on 31st October.  It's no coincidence that those who don't support Boris are in the DON'T Respect Democracy camp.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, apelike said:

I think if there is to be a run-off then it should be deal or no-deal as remain was already a part of the first referendum question and shouldn't be used again.

 

That's exactly correct.  Then every voter has a say in the way our country leave the EU.  I don't support  another referendum though because our MPs should have a straight choice between the new Withdrawal Agreement on offer or a no-deal exit on the 31st October.

 

1 minute ago, Bargepole23 said:

Well done Mr Speaker :)

The speaker shouldn't have allowed the Letwin amendment vote on Saturday. It should have been a vote whether to support the new Withdrawal Agreement on offer or not support it.  The speaker of the house is not neutral otherwise he wouldn't allow amendments to be voted on that are intended to block the implementation of the democratic 2016 EU Referendum result. 

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28 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Since the democratic 2016 Referendum result our country has been divided.  Our country isn't  divided between Remainers and Leavers, but it is divided  between those who Respect Democracy and those who DON'T Respect Democracy.  I am in the Respect Democracy camp and support the way Boris has behaved  and what he has done since becoming  our country's Prime Minister because he is doing his very best to get the democratic 2016 EU Referendum result implemented on 31st October.  It's no coincidence that those who don't support Boris are in the DON'T Respect Democracy camp.

 

 

A true democrat wouldn’t pick and choose the bits of democracy that they supported.

 

It is a bit hypocritical to claim to respect democracy and then to complain about the conduct of our democratically elected parliament.

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58 minutes ago, hobinfoot said:

You cannot have it both ways. Are you saying that the first referendum result wasn’t democratic ? Of course you have the right to change your mind but you’re argument would deny my and others rights to have our votes implemented from the 2016 referendum.

If the first referendum result was automatically enshrined in law (like the AV referendum was) the result wouldn't have stood as it fell below electoral commission standards - or so I've read. It was only a snippet so I'll look further.

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15 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

If the first referendum result was automatically enshrined in law (like the AV referendum was) the result wouldn't have stood as it fell below electoral commission standards - or so I've read. It was only a snippet so I'll look further.

No that was reported in a blog which was widely circulated and siezed upon by remainers but was just someone's interpretation of how he saw it.  Whether it was binding or nonbinding has no relevance on the outcome as it was still passed by an act of parliament with the electoral commission as the overseers with basically the same legal rules. I posted as such many posts ago and have also contacted the electoral commission on that very subject. 

Edited by apelike

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20 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:If the first referendum result was automatically enshrined in law (like the AV referendum was) the result wouldn't have stood as it fell below electoral commission standards - or so I've read. It was only a snippet so I'll look further.

You may be referring to a legal opinion based on these (High Court) findings.

 

I do not recall whether that opinion was expressed by Maugham or not. But if it was, I'd take it to the bank: it's him (and the GLP) who have achieved the biggest legal wins against the government in the recent months.

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27 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

A true democrat wouldn’t pick and choose the bits of democracy that they supported.

 

It is a bit hypocritical to claim to respect democracy and then to complain about the conduct of our democratically elected parliament.

Our democratically elected parliament should have never voted in favour of holding the 2016 EU Referendum if they were not prepared to implement both of the choices on the ballot paper.

 

I am not hypocritical at all.  I went to the polling station on 23rd June 2016 believing if my personal choice was in the majority then that choice would be implemented. I personally chose the Remain option and expected our country to remain in the EU, if the majority chose the Remain option. I would be a hypocrite if I didn't support the winning choice which was Leave that I personally didn't vote for from being implemented.

Edited by Lockdoctor

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5 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Our democratically elected parliament should have never voted in favour of holding the 2016 EU Referendum if they were not prepared to implement both of the choices on the ballot paper.

 

I am not hypocritical at all.  I went to the polling station on 23rd June 2016 believing if my personal choice was in the majority then that choice would be implemented. I personally chose the Remain option and expected our country to remain in the EU, if the majority chose the Remain option. I would be a hypocrite if I didn't support the winning choice which was Leave that I personally didn't vote for from being implemented.

As usual, you fail to address the substantive point.

 

As a democrat, do you support the actions of our democratically elected parliament?

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19 hours ago, Pettytom said:

I presume that Johnson has sacked his old legal team then. You know, the ones who told him that proroguing Parliament was legal.

 

So far, Johnson has yet to win either a Commons vote, or a court case, since he became our unelected PM.

 

So, what chance do you think he has of winning this one?

 

He could get banged up for two years, for contempt. We all know that you’d like to see criminals locked away for a long time, so I guess you’d support such an outcome.

 

 

The EU have stated they received the letter, and it is fine, signed or not.

 

Angel1.

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