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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

Groose

Mod Note: As we are getting rather tired of seeing reports about this. The use of the word Remoaners  is to cease. Either posts like adults, or don't post at all. The mod warnings have been clear.

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mort

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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13 minutes ago, Michael_W said:

The emotional outburst from the mp should have been made a little calmer, what happened to Jo Cox was disgusting but using it in a fit of anger to stifle debate and claim some moral superiority was unnecessary. Johnson should have chosen a wiser response, but the language used by both sides, particularly on social media is wrong, and most certainly should not be dished out if it can't be returned, to me it seems that currently one side is happy to label people as thick, uneducated, xenophobic, racist, fascist, Nazi etc and then gets upset when they hear politicians use the terms surrender, betrayal and traitor !

Its hard for any MP to take the high ground when all they've done in there for years is jeer, boo, shout and act like animals.

 

So much opportunity to sort Brexit out has been lost. 

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41 minutes ago, apelike said:

IIRC you posted a link by Farage trying to show Farage stating that he wanted a privatised NHS.

Farage is never going to be in power so what he wants is completely irrelevant.

 

The threat to the NHS is that it has been made quite clear by the US that access to the UK health market would be part of any post-Brexit trade negotiations with the US. When asked about a possible deal, Trump himself said that everything would be up for negotiation.

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14 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The threat to the NHS is that it has been made quite clear by the US that access to the UK health market would be part of any post-Brexit trade negotiations with the US. When asked about a possible deal, Trump himself said that everything would be up for negotiation.

I love how Trump is well known as a liar on this forum.

 

Unless you want to use something to further your argument, then suddenly his ramblings are trustworthy............

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1 hour ago, alchresearch said:

I love how Trump is well known as a liar on this forum.

 

Unless you want to use something to further your argument, then suddenly his ramblings are trustworthy............

Trump is a businessman. Trump believes in America First. Trump knows that post-Brexit, the UK will be on the back foot in any negotiations. Trump, along with many americans believe that our NHS is a communist organisation.

 

What makes you think that Trump would not want US companies to have access to a $200 billion a year market?

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4 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The threat to the NHS is that it has been made quite clear by the US that access to the UK health market would be part of any post-Brexit trade negotiations with the US. When asked about a possible deal, Trump himself said that everything would be up for negotiation.

Everything except the NHS. As the NHS is in place originally because of and act or parliament and subsequent revisions also creating new acts it is highly unlikely that parliament would allow it to be privatised extensively as only certain parts of the act(s) allow that without further parliamentary approval. There are already talks about a repeal of section 75 of the 2012 Health and Social Care Act and from what I have read part of the forthcoming Queens speech will outline the planned proposals under the long term plan which was drawn up by May.  

Edited by apelike

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5 hours ago, alchresearch said:

I love how Trump is well known as a liar on this forum.

 

Unless you want to use something to further your argument, then suddenly his ramblings are trustworthy............

Just remember as well that the UK won't have a say in the matter and if trump wants the NHS, we'll just hand it over because we won't negotiate. .

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6 hours ago, Michael_W said:

The emotional outburst from the mp should have been made a little calmer, what happened to Jo Cox was disgusting but using it in a fit of anger to stifle debate and claim some moral superiority was unnecessary. Johnson should have chosen a wiser response, but the language used by both sides, particularly on social media is wrong, 

We’re going to have to get the flags out Michael. I agree with this 100%

 

As the argument has stagnated, the language used by both sides has become very extreme. Bringing Jo Cox into the debate wasn’t needed, but Johnson’s response was appalling.

 

We really need an outcome to this now. That outcome must recognise that leave won, but also that a very significant minority of people voted to remain.

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14 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

We’re going to have to get the flags out Michael. I agree with this 100%

 

As the argument has stagnated, the language used by both sides has become very extreme. Bringing Jo Cox into the debate wasn’t needed, but Johnson’s response was appalling.

 

We really need an outcome to this now. That outcome must recognise that leave won, but also that a very significant minority of people voted to remain.

We need to check with the country that what is on offer is what they voted for - but BoJo doesn't have the guts to ask anyone for an opinion in case it shows up the fact that the Suicide Act (aka Brexit) is not wanted now. After all,  democracy is about being able to change your mind...

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19 hours ago, Car Boot said:

You're indicating that you pay disproportionately less tax than the majority of tax payers?

When my tax bill is more than the average wage, then I think it is disproportionate compared to what I earn. 

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5 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Trump is a businessman. Trump believes in America First. Trump knows that post-Brexit, the UK will be on the back foot in any negotiations. Trump, along with many americans believe that our NHS is a communist organisation.

 

What makes you think that Trump would not want US companies to have access to a $200 billion a year market?

Yes, a post-Brexit "deal" would be TTIP Mark 2, but with the UK rather than the EU as the counterparty.

 

Do you remember TTIP?  I hope it's been confined to the dustbin of history, but one of my fears for the future is that it will come back from the grave.  I seem to remember Mr Trump trying to revive it a while back.  Apart from all the other problems, it would also formalize the transfer of sovereignty from countries to the Market (pbui) that we've been seeing in recent decades.  As a standard text book on constitutional law puts it, TTIP

 

"would [have] empower[ed] foreign companies (investors) to challenge domestic legislation (parliamentary sovereignty) in secret arbitration forums (rule of law)."

 

Bradley/Ewing/Knight, 17th edition, p. 146.

 

The "(rule of law)" bit means that, for good measure, TTIP would also have undermined one of the key principles of the rule of law, namely that the law should be applied publicly, transparently.

 

Anyway, this is another way in which Brexit might damage Britain's sovereignty, contrary to the stated aims.

 

[I'm not claiming to know much about constitutional law, but I have been reading up about it to try and understand the latest ructions.]

Edited by CaptainSwing

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37 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

Do you remember TTIP?  

I certainly do.. A couple of mates of mine who you certainly wouldn’t call typical Brexiteers voted Leave simply to get the UK out of an EU which was about to sign TTIP with the US.

 

They are both now very aware of the irony that their actions may have made an EU-free UK the only country desperate enough to sign a similar agreement with the US.

 

 

3 hours ago, apelike said:

Everything except the NHS. As the NHS is in place originally because of and act or parliament 

As we both know, an Act of Parliament can be amended or repealed.

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1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

As we both know, an Act of Parliament can be amended or repealed.

Yes it can but it is up to parliament, and would parliament actually do that to enable privatisation of the NHS? As said plans are already underfoot to repeal parts of the 2012 Act but that is to bring it back inline with the notion that the NHS will remain a public body and be in control.

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