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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

Groose

Mod Note: As we are getting rather tired of seeing reports about this. The use of the word Remoaners  is to cease. Either posts like adults, or don't post at all. The mod warnings have been clear.

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2 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The fact that it did not reflect the views of the nation in itself, is evidence that it was democratically flawed, regardless of the rules, regulations and agreements surrounding it.

So pretty much like every single general election ever? So elections are democratically flawed too. 

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17 hours ago, Pettytom said:

You don’t have to move.

 

But you do have to accept that people oppose you, will question you and will blame you as they inevitably get poorer.

 

 

Now there's a few words that you should also apply to people with your own views of Brexit and everything else politically, need I remind our Remainer posters to go back and look at the root cause of this situation and their own arrogant Blairite political bias that helped create the situation.

Tony Blair and New Labour opened the door to mass immigration from the EU, companies all over the UK and many in this city thought they could make a killing by employing EU migrants on lower wages than many locals, this happened mostly in working class industries, and this influx had the effect of annoying many working class people. It was Farage and UKIP that picked up on that and grabbed the attention of those affected most, which in turn contributed greatly to the Referendum result to Leave.

The mainstream politicians of Lib Lab Con, blinded by their own arrogance and ignorance around those concerns, particularly around EU immigration issues, even back then many were calling them xenophobic, bigoted and racist to put down and quieten their concerns, there was evidence of it all over this forum back then too, and it all backfired, so if and when we do Leave remember your own contribution.

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9 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

So pretty much like every single general election ever? So elections are democratically flawed too. 

Of course they are, but if any government strays too far from the issues important to the populace, they lose the next election within 5 years or less. A binary choice with far reaching implications for the whole nation needs to much more accurately reflect the wishes of the nation.

 

The 2016 referendum didn’t do that. It was always going to return a ‘Leave result’ as it was demanded by leave supporters, offered to those leave supporters and leave supporters were way more likely to partake in it.

 

I shall say again, as a democratic exercise it was deeply flawed.

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4 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Of course they are, but if any government strays too far from the issues important to the populace, they lose the next election within 5 years or less. A binary choice with far reaching implications for the whole nation needs to much more accurately reflect the wishes of the nation.

 

The 2016 referendum didn’t do that. It was always going to return a ‘Leave result’ as it was demanded by leave supporters, offered to those leave supporters and leave supporters were way more likely to partake in it.

 

I shall say again, as a democratic exercise it was deeply flawed.

I'm not sure the logic behind that. 

 

The Scottish independence referendum was demanded by people who wanted Scottish independence. They lost. 

 

The UK Referendum on the AV system was demanded by people who wanted to change the FPTP system. They lost. 

 

Why is the EU referendum different? 

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33 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

I'm not sure the logic behind that. 

 

The Scottish independence referendum was demanded by people who wanted Scottish independence. They lost. 

 

The UK Referendum on the AV system was demanded by people who wanted to change the FPTP system. They lost. 

 

Why is the EU referendum different? 

The EU referendum was demanded by noone: prior to 2014, the UK's membership of the EU was polling at less than 6% amongst people's political preoccupations.

 

A reference to the Scottish indyref should be made with caution, as well: if the UK does Brexit, they'd be getting their second indyref within the next year or two (the applicable test of "no material change to circumstances" on which Scotland's continuing membership of the UK was premised at the time, would be well and truly shattered into a thousand tiny pieces by an actual Brexit, beyond the proverbial slam-dunk).

Edited by L00b

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1 minute ago, L00b said:

The EU referendum was demanded by noone: prior to 2014, the UK's membership of the EU was polling at less than 6% amongst people's political preoccupations.

It was demanded by no-one? Really? I seem to remember UKIP polling quite highly in the 2014 Euro elections...

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13 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

It was demanded by no-one? Really? I seem to remember UKIP polling quite highly in the 2014 Euro elections...

And what percentage of the UK electorate for a domestic GE, never mind the whole UK, did that represent?

 

The 2016 referendum was a political tool of the Tories, by the Tories, for the Tories. And it's not worked: over 3 years on, with a PM and cabinet-full of pro-crashout ministers, they're still reacting to the BXP for avoiding an outflanking manoeuver. 

 

Their voters, Tories like BXP, are all just useful idiots along for the ride. Clearest evidence? As instructed by UK media, mass and social, they now hold those who support remain, ie the centre ground of the status quo, as "extremists" :rolleyes:

 

So I'd suggest some cop-on under the circumstances...but then I've been suggesting that for close to 4 years now, and there's little evidence of any more of it being demonstrated this late in the game, than over the past years.

Edited by L00b

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2 minutes ago, L00b said:

And what percentage of the UK electorate for a domestic GE, never mind the whole UK, did that represent?

 

The 2016 referendum was a political tool of the Tories, by the Tories, for the Tories. And it's not worked: over 3 years on, with a PM and cabinet-full of pro-crashout ministers, they're still reacting to the BXP for avoiding an outflanking manoeuver. 

 

Their voters, Tories like BXP, are all just useful idiots along for the ride.

UKIP won 26.6% of the vote in the 2014 EU election in the UK. They won a larger share of the vote than any other party. That's not nobody. It's not a majority but I didn't say it was.

 

Claiming that nobody was demanding a referendum is clearly untrue. 

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1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The fact that it did not reflect the views of the nation in itself, is evidence that it was democratically flawed, regardless of the rules, regulations and agreements surrounding it.

But as stated it is impossible to reflect the views of the whole nation (whatever that means) as that is just not possible. Democracy is about enabling the eligible members of the state (electorate) to have a vote and does not include children, many people held at Her Majesty's pleasure, temporary residents or visitors and many more for obvious reasons, and the rules are clearly set out. Now, how do you propose a solution to that quandary?

 

https://www.gov.uk/elections-in-the-uk/referendums

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23 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

UKIP won 26.6% of the vote in the 2014 EU election in the UK. They won a larger share of the vote than any other party. That's not nobody. It's not a majority but I didn't say it was.

 

Claiming that nobody was demanding a referendum is clearly untrue. 

Ukip won 26.6% with 4m votes. That means the other parties shared 73.4% with 11m.

 

Which of those other parties was campaigning on exiting the EU? That's right, none.

 

And yet a year later, we had the 2015  Referendum Act voted through, setting out the 2016 referendum, by the Tories (plus votes from MPs of the other parties, lest we forget), who had got 17 more MEP seats than UKIP at that 2014 EU elections.

 

If the Tories hadn't been frightened of UKIP, you'd have never had an EU referendum.

 

You can perfectly believe that 4m voters lending their voice to the nauseating bunch of miscreants that was the UKIP MEP candidates, represented 'people wanting to exit the EU'. I don't: they were the same vociferous minority protest-voting UKIP at the LabCon duopoly and austerity, as 2 years later in the referendum. Already Turkeys, and voting for ever more Xmas ever since.

 

Breaking news (genuine): Steve Barclay just out of meeting in Brussels. The EU has rejected the UK's request for a Brexit without the backstop. In other news, bears poo in woods, the Pope is catholic, grass is green and the sky is blue.

Edited by L00b

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1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The 2016 referendum didn’t do that. It was always going to return a ‘Leave result’ as it was demanded by leave supporters, offered to those leave supporters and leave supporters were way more likely to partake in it.

May I remind you of the polls well before the referendum as it was predicted to return a remain vote. As the Lords have stated in one of their reviews, Governments only hold referendums if they think they can win. The EU has never been much of an issue regarding voters and a referendum was never demanded by them. Its always been a political manoeuvre by all the political parties including the LibDems to demand an in/out vote and even Jo Swinson in 2008 stated there should be a referendum on the major issue of whether we are in or out of Europe.

Edited by apelike

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2 minutes ago, L00b said:

Ukip won 26.6% with 4m votes. That means the other parties shared 73.4% with 11m.

 

Which of those other parties was campaigning on exiting the EU? That's right, none.

 

And yet a year later, we had the 2015  Referendum Act voted through, setting out the 2016 referendum, by the Tories (plus votes from MPs of the other parties, lest we forget), who had got 17 more MEP seats than UKIP at that 2014 EU elections.

 

If the Tories hadn't been frightened of UKIP, you'd have never had an EU referendum.

 

You can perfectly believe that 4m voters lending their voice to the nauseating bunch of miscreants that was the UKIP MEP candidates, represented 'people wanting to exit the EU'. I don't: they were the same vociferous minority protest-voting UKIP at the LabCon duopoly and austerity, as 2 years later in the referendum. Already Turkeys, and voting for ever more Xmas ever since.

 

 

 

 

You're arguing for no reason. 

 

All I corrected you on was your claim that nobody was demanding an EU referendum. 4.4m people is not 'nobody'. 

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