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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

Vaati

Mod Note: As we are getting rather tired of seeing reports about this. The use of the word Remoaners  is to cease. Either posts like adults, or don't post at all. The mod warnings have been clear.

Message added by Vaati

mort

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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48 minutes ago, apelike said:

So have your hours been reduced and have price rises? affected you to such an extent that you now dont have enough to live on?

 

But I am happy to live in this democracy called the UK so why should I move?

My hours have been affected, my health has been affected, prices have risen to such an extent that I now have to consider more carefully what I buy.

 

I don't consider the current state a democracy where you have an admitted liar, cheat, racist sexist in charge of a minority government trying to deliver what the majority of the country don't want without any consultation of the electorate.

 

When that lying, cheating, racist, sexist PM purges those who dare to stand up against him and shuts down the elected parliament, I can't help comparing the current situation to that of Germany in the 1930s or the Stalinist era in the Soviet Union.

Is it any wonder that we have had a massive rise in right wing extremism crimes since the vote?

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1 hour ago, apelike said:

But in your post you were making out that I dont like democracy and should move elsewhere when I have already stated my position.

You were making out that everybody should get behind the result of the referendum (post #1594)

 

It is becoming a bit of a theme on here that everybody should get behind the result / Boris etc  and stop complaining (the use of the word "remoaner" by some is typical).  That to me isn't democracy - it's dictatorship by the majority.

 

Meanwhile projected exports of Unicorns take a severe downturn as Stephen Barclay admits Boris was only kidding when he said we could find a replacement to the Irish Backstop in 30 days.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deadline-irish-backstop-no-deal-stephen-barclay-october-a9111756.html

 

Presumably Boris thought Irish deep fine leg and third man were as near to backstop as makes no difference

 

 

Edited by Longcol

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4 hours ago, apelike said:

Not sure as it was in past brexit threads so have a look at them, as we are now on 8 it may take time!

 

Let the poor who voted to leave worry about that matter. 

Probably quicker and more helpful if you would update your reasons.

I am willing to be converted .

”The consequences of Brexit” may not necessarily be all bad.

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5 hours ago, Litotes said:

My hours have been affected, my health has been affected, prices have risen to such an extent that I now have to consider more carefully what I buy.

 Me bold.. Exactly what prices are you talking about and what are you buying?

 

Quote

I don't consider the current state a democracy where you have an admitted liar, cheat, racist sexist in charge of a minority government trying to deliver what the majority of the country don't want without any consultation of the electorate.

You may not but parliament disagree. As for a minority government  and the rest... We had a consultation when we had a referendum and people were given a democratic vote and the results of that vote were accepted by parliament. Just because you don't like the outcome it does not make it any less valid. If parliament want they can revoke A50 and hold another referendum but I feel that is very unlikely as it may not solve anything and it could just possibly lead to another narrow margin but in this case for remain. 

Edited by apelike

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4 hours ago, Longcol said:

You were making out that everybody should get behind the result of the referendum (post #1594)

Yes I was as it has been delayed far too long and that is what is causing the economic uncertainty. 

 

4 hours ago, Longcol said:

It is becoming a bit of a theme on here that everybody should get behind the result / Boris etc  and stop complaining (the use of the word "remoaner" by some is typical).  That to me isn't democracy - it's dictatorship by the majority.

Hang on a minute.. Its the remoaners (your word) that have been and still are talking about the voters who voted leave as being being badly educated gammoners, thick, racist and xenophobes.

 

When the electorate have been given a democratic choice to vote and the result is in the majority they call that democracy. Any idea that it is dictatorship by the majority is false.

 

2 hours ago, RJRB said:

Probably quicker and more helpful if you would update your reasons.

I am willing to be converted .

”The consequences of Brexit” may not necessarily be all bad.

As said, I have already given my reasons and dont feel that it is necessary to keep stating them. My reasons are my reasons and as the referendum is now well over it really does not matter either.

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7 hours ago, apelike said:

When the electorate have been given a democratic choice to vote and the result is in the majority they call that democracy.

Only if everyone partakes in it.

 

Otherwise the vote will be skewed in favour of those who demanded the referendum. This is evidenced by the fact that the vast majority of those who didn’t vote supported Remain. It is always evidenced by the fact that before, during and after the referendum, all credible polls showed a majority of the population in favour of remaining.

 

As a democratic exercise, the 2016 referendum was seriously flawed which is why no second referendum is not needed to revoke Article 50, just a Parliament that puts the interests of the UK first whatever its political make up.

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2 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Only if everyone partakes in it.

 

No. In our democracy and many others that call themselves democratic it is those that vote that count. It is a simple principle as it is impossible to include everyone and because of that certain criteria must be met. 

 

Quote

Otherwise the vote will be skewed in favour of those who demanded the referendum. This is evidenced by the fact that the vast majority of those who didn’t vote supported Remain. It is always evidenced by the fact that before, during and after the referendum, all credible polls showed a majority of the population in favour of remaining.

It is impossible to state that that is the case without doing what you ask and that is asking them all and to remind you again it is not about the population but the electorate that qualify.

 

Quote

As a democratic exercise, the 2016 referendum was seriously flawed which is why no second referendum is not needed to revoke Article 50, just a Parliament that puts the interests of the UK first whatever its political make up.

The democratic referendum was agreed to and the rules regarding that referendum were formulated and agreed to after a few revisions by our democratic sovereign body called parliament.They made the rules according to the democratic process so it was not flawed. We either agree to let our elected body do that otherwise we must alter the system. I agree, a second referendum is not needed as parliament can just revoke A50 if they want, which brings us nicely back to the reasons why it was not flawed as the same body makes the rules.

Edited by apelike

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12 minutes ago, apelike said:

They made the rules according to the democratic process so it was not flawed. 

The fact that it did not reflect the views of the nation in itself, is evidence that it was democratically flawed, regardless of the rules, regulations and agreements surrounding it.

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2 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The fact that it did not reflect the views of the nation in itself, is evidence that it was democratically flawed, regardless of the rules, regulations and agreements surrounding it.

So pretty much like every single general election ever? So elections are democratically flawed too. 

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17 hours ago, Pettytom said:

You don’t have to move.

 

But you do have to accept that people oppose you, will question you and will blame you as they inevitably get poorer.

 

 

Now there's a few words that you should also apply to people with your own views of Brexit and everything else politically, need I remind our Remainer posters to go back and look at the root cause of this situation and their own arrogant Blairite political bias that helped create the situation.

Tony Blair and New Labour opened the door to mass immigration from the EU, companies all over the UK and many in this city thought they could make a killing by employing EU migrants on lower wages than many locals, this happened mostly in working class industries, and this influx had the effect of annoying many working class people. It was Farage and UKIP that picked up on that and grabbed the attention of those affected most, which in turn contributed greatly to the Referendum result to Leave.

The mainstream politicians of Lib Lab Con, blinded by their own arrogance and ignorance around those concerns, particularly around EU immigration issues, even back then many were calling them xenophobic, bigoted and racist to put down and quieten their concerns, there was evidence of it all over this forum back then too, and it all backfired, so if and when we do Leave remember your own contribution.

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9 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

So pretty much like every single general election ever? So elections are democratically flawed too. 

Of course they are, but if any government strays too far from the issues important to the populace, they lose the next election within 5 years or less. A binary choice with far reaching implications for the whole nation needs to much more accurately reflect the wishes of the nation.

 

The 2016 referendum didn’t do that. It was always going to return a ‘Leave result’ as it was demanded by leave supporters, offered to those leave supporters and leave supporters were way more likely to partake in it.

 

I shall say again, as a democratic exercise it was deeply flawed.

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4 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Of course they are, but if any government strays too far from the issues important to the populace, they lose the next election within 5 years or less. A binary choice with far reaching implications for the whole nation needs to much more accurately reflect the wishes of the nation.

 

The 2016 referendum didn’t do that. It was always going to return a ‘Leave result’ as it was demanded by leave supporters, offered to those leave supporters and leave supporters were way more likely to partake in it.

 

I shall say again, as a democratic exercise it was deeply flawed.

I'm not sure the logic behind that. 

 

The Scottish independence referendum was demanded by people who wanted Scottish independence. They lost. 

 

The UK Referendum on the AV system was demanded by people who wanted to change the FPTP system. They lost. 

 

Why is the EU referendum different? 

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