Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

[Gormenghast 58]

36 minutes ago, Tony said:

This is why many people don't bother here any more. Any chance of conversation is met with a salami-sliced response that reinterprets, distorts and misrepresents in order to win some point that the other person didn't make and cares even less about. It's playground hair pulling and definitely not Oxford Union debate.

 

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

This is why many people don't bother here any more. Any chance of conversation is met with a salami-sliced response that reinterprets, distorts and misrepresents in order to win some point that the other person didn't make and cares even less about. It's playground hair pulling and definitely not Oxford Union debate.

 

The simple truth is that UK <> AUS free movement of any kind is a matter for negotiation, always was, always will be.  It's negotiation. Anyone outside the negotiation who is making predictions or having hard expectations really should have a look at themselves, especially on SF. 

 

Find me somebody (apart from you and your point scoring) who cares about AUS travel not being visa free post Brexit and I'll buy you a pint.

 

For what it's worth I would be very surprised if there was not some form of free movement negotiated for certain professions and / or sectors depending on what the other is looking for. 

Who's been "reinterpreting, distorting and misrepresenting" in order to win some point that the other person I didn't make and care even less about, here?

 

I made a simple point about the irony of the UK deciding to leave the EU to stop EU27 unskilled moving there under the EU FoM, then rocking up to Oz with an FTA proposal including UK-Oz FoM, only for Oz to turn around and go 'thanks but no, we don't want UK unskilled moving here'.

 

The rest ever since, is down to your deflecting. Feel free to stop deflecting, at which time I'll be more than happy to engage your arguments.

 

I've not made any predictions about UK-Oz FoM (or FTA, for that matter), btw. Couldn't care less about how the UK and Oz go about resuming trade: this is the consequences of Brexit thread, wherein the UK's double standards about FoM makes it worth a mention.

 

I've not made any predictions about UK-EU27 FoM post-Brexit either, AFAIR. As you rightly note, that is still all up for negotiation at this time.

 

However I can easily predict that the UK will not enjoy FoM of capital (freely moving £s in/out of EU), nor FoM of services (freely selling UK services into the EU) without maintaining FoM of persons for EU27: under EU primary legislation, they are not dissociable from each other, it's all-or-nothing.

 

A (really basic) point repeatedly made to the UK by Barnier for 3+ years now, and again today by Von der Leyden: that's exactly how and why cakeism (Brexited UK maintaining FoM of goods/capital/services without FoM of people), that was so very publicly and loudly promised by Leavers during the referendum campaign in 2016, could be confidently predicted to fail at the time, has failed ever since, and can be confidently predicted to continue failing for as long as the EU remains based on these 4 pillars.

 

Brexit means Brexit: you knew what you were voting for 

Edited January 8, 2020 by L00b

[Tony 10]

See what I mean? 

 

Probably not.

[L00b 441]

7 minutes ago, Tony said:

See what I mean? 

 

Probably not.

Which is it this time, Tony: too playgroundesque or too Oxfordian?

[L00b 441]

Important speech by Von der Leyden today at the LSE.

 

Full text here.

Quote

But the truth is that our partnership cannot and will not be the same as before. And it cannot and will not be as close as before – because with every choice comes a consequence. With every decision comes a trade-off. Without the free movement of people, you cannot have the free movement of capital, goods and services. Without a level playing field on environment, labour, taxation and state aid, you cannot have the highest quality access to the world's largest single market.
 
The more divergence there is, the more distant the partnership has to be. And without an extension of the transition period beyond 2020, you cannot expect to agree on every single aspect of our new partnership. We will have to prioritise. The European Union's objectives in the negotiation are clear. We will work for solutions that uphold the integrity of the EU, its single market and its Customs Union. There can be no compromise on this.

But we are ready to design a new partnership with zero tariffs, zero quotas, zero dumping. A partnership that goes well beyond trade and is unprecedented in scope. Everything from climate action to data protection, fisheries to energy, transport to space, financial services to security. And we are ready to work day and night to get as much of this done within the timeframe we have.

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by L00b

[apelike 10]

This one works.

 

https://www.euronews.com/2020/01/08/watch-live-eu-chief-von-der-leyen-delivers-speech-on-eu-uk-future-relationship

[hobinfoot 25]

15 minutes ago, L00b said:

Important speech by Von der Leyden today at the LSE.

 

Full text here.

That sounds fair enough.

[melthebell 862]

3 hours ago, L00b said:

 

 

I made a simple point about the irony of the UK deciding to leave the EU to stop EU27 unskilled moving there under the EU FoM, then rocking up to Oz with an FTA proposal including UK-Oz FoM, only for Oz to turn around and go 'thanks but no, we don't want UK unskilled moving here'.

 

dont worry Loob, i see the irony too LOL

[taxman 12]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/08/helen-mccourts-killer-to-be-freed-as-ministers-appeal-rejected 

Here is a consequence of Brexit.  The government spent so much time looking up its own jacksy that they failed to pass the laws they promised. And whilst red faced gammons can get off on having  blue passports again in the real world people need a government to deliver on a range of issues, not just one loud and stupid one. 

[Mister Gee 812]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/child-refugee-vote-brexit-bill-withdrawal-agreement-labour-boris-johnson-a9275391.html

 

MPs vote against amendment that would have protected the right for unaccompanied child refugees to be reunited with their family after Brexit. We've finally got our country back but it's a cesspit.

[Sidonica 10]

10 hours ago, Mister Gee said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/child-refugee-vote-brexit-bill-withdrawal-agreement-labour-boris-johnson-a9275391.html

 

MPs vote against amendment that would have protected the right for unaccompanied child refugees to be reunited with their family after Brexit. We've finally got our country back but it's a cesspit.

I sent an email to my new conservative MP (Stocksbridge & Penistone) about this some time ago,  I don't think she will bother to reply now but I will send her another email anyway.

[L00b 441]

11 hours ago, Mister Gee said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/child-refugee-vote-brexit-bill-withdrawal-agreement-labour-boris-johnson-a9275391.html

 

MPs vote against amendment that would have protected the right for unaccompanied child refugees to be reunited with their family after Brexit. We've finally got our country back but it's a cesspit.

The government is whipping against any and all amendments, to preserve as 'blank' and wide a scope of negotiation as possible, before the post-Brexit FTA negotiations begin (amendments would signal to the EU27, where the UK intends to go in the negotiations, ie they would begin to "show the UK's hand").

 

It certainly does not make for a good look. But there is understandable method to that apparent madness (from a utilitarian point of view), and what matters is the end point: after the negotiations are through, the UK may well end up protecting the reunification rights of unaccompanied child refugees, besides other issues (eg Erasmus amendment similarly defeated last night, so no more Erasmus - pending negotiations however), by the time the UK-EU FTA is done and signed.

Edited January 9, 2020 by L00b