Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

[Longcol 598]

3 hours ago, West 77 said:

Who cares about the unelected EU Commissioners now the UK is leaving the EU at the end of the month? When cabinet ministers do bad jobs or behave badly they are sacked by our own Prime Minister.

I think you mean Dominic Cummings 😎

 

Looks like he's picking his team to run the country - and running the Civil Service as well.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/02/dominic-cummings-calls-for-weirdos-and-misfits-for-no-10-jobs

Edited January 2, 2020 by Longcol

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 hour ago, Longcol said:

I think you mean Dominic Cummings 😎

 

Looks like he's picking his team to run the country - and running the Civil Service as well.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/02/dominic-cummings-calls-for-weirdos-and-misfits-for-no-10-jobs

If he signs up to SF he'll have all positions filled in no time.

[Longcol 598]

41 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

If he signs up to SF he'll have all positions filled in no time.

Just to help some of our members;

 

Applicants are instructed to send a one-page email outlining their ideas to an unofficial account - ideasfornumber10@gmail.com - with the subject line “Job”.

 

Mind you, if he's after real weirdo's and misfits he needs to post on the David Icke Forum - or Conservative Home.

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Longcol

[L00b 441]

In a most delightful twist of irony, Australia today rejected the notion of a visa-free FTA with the UK, because they don't want to get swamped by British unskilled immigrants:

Minister Simon Birmingham said full free movement would not be accepted because it could cause an exodus of highly trained workers to the UK and an influx of unskilled British workers to Sydney and Melbourne.

 

 

 

[Tony 10]

38 minutes ago, L00b said:

In a most delightful twist of irony, Australia today rejected the notion of a visa-free FTA with the UK, because they don't want to get swamped by British unskilled immigrants:

 

 

 

 

Where is the irony? 

[L00b 441]

28 minutes ago, Tony said:

Where is the irony? 

UK votes to leave the EU primarily for ending the EU freedom of movement principle that permits (allegedly so many) 'unskilled' EU27 migrants to come to the UK, besides promising the international trading moon on an 'Empire2.0' stick post-Brexit. UK accordingly submits an FTA proposal including UK<>AU FoM to AU...

 

...which AU rejects because that would permit (potentially so many) unskilled UK migrants to come to AU.

 

And you don't see the irony in this outcome?

 

OK 

 

 

[Tony 10]

27 minutes ago, L00b said:

UK votes to leave the EU primarily for ending the EU freedom of movement principle that permits (allegedly so many) 'unskilled' EU27 migrants to come to the UK, besides promising the international trading moon on an 'Empire2.0' stick post-Brexit. UK accordingly submits an FTA proposal including UK<>AU FoM to AU...

 

...which AU rejects because that would permit (potentially so many) unskilled UK migrants to come to AU.

 

And you don't see the irony in this outcome?

 

OK 

 

 

Not really in the way you seem to. The irony is that you seem to be  laughing that the UK can implement similar immigration controls to Australia's, which was a major plank of the Leave campaign.  

 

In this case the irony is on you  for bringing it up L00b. There is no reason to think that the UK is entitled to any exceptionalism beyond that which can be agreed between two willing negotiating partners such as the UK and Australia, or the UK and the EU27. Whatever is agreed can suit the circumstances of the individual nations with compromise as appropriate to the overall negotiating objectives. It's strange to imagine that all UK citizens should be able to wander in and out of Australia without Australia agreeing to it, but it's not ironic.

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Not really in the way you seem to. The irony is that you seem to be  laughing that the UK can implement similar immigration controls to Australia's, which was a major plank of the Leave campaign.  

Nice strawman, champ.

 

I'm not laughing at the notion that "the UK can implement similar immigration controls to Australia", particularly since the UK has had exactly that in place since 2008 in respect of third country nationals.

 

I'm laughing at the UK getting a dose of well-deserved karma.

2 hours ago, Tony said:

In this case the irony is on you  for bringing it up L00b. 

You'd like it to be so, I'm sure. Regrettably, however:

2 hours ago, Tony said: There is no reason to think that the UK is entitled to any exceptionalism beyond that which can be agreed between two willing negotiating partners such as the UK and Australia, or the UK and the EU27. Whatever is agreed can suit the circumstances of the individual nations with compromise as appropriate to the overall negotiating objectives. It's strange to imagine that all UK citizens should be able to wander in and out of Australia without Australia agreeing to it, but it's not ironic.

So strange, and clearly beyond the realms of imagination... 

 

...that your Ministers have long been pushing it openly as part of their post-Brexit strategy, and duly embodied it in that FTA proposal which Australia just rejected.

 

 

 

[lottiecass 17]

6 hours ago, L00b said:

Nice strawman, champ.

 

I'm not laughing at the notion that "the UK can implement similar immigration controls to Australia", particularly since the UK has had exactly that in place since 2008 in respect of third country nationals.

 

I'm laughing at the UK getting a dose of well-deserved karma.

You'd like it to be so, I'm sure. Regrettably, however:

So strange, and clearly beyond the realms of imagination... 

 

...that your Ministers have long been pushing it openly as part of their post-Brexit strategy, and duly embodied it in that FTA proposal which Australia just rejected.

 

 

 

Australia has had this immigration rule for a long time, they don't want/need unskilled labour and it applies to every country.

[Tony 10]

 

21 hours ago, L00b said:

Nice strawman, champ.

 

I'm not laughing at the notion that "the UK can implement similar immigration controls to Australia", particularly since the UK has had exactly that in place since 2008 in respect of third country nationals.

 

I'm laughing at the UK getting a dose of well-deserved karma.

You'd like it to be so, I'm sure. Regrettably, however:

So strange, and clearly beyond the realms of imagination... 

 

...that your Ministers have long been pushing it openly as part of their post-Brexit strategy, and duly embodied it in that FTA proposal which Australia just rejected.

 

 

 

It's crystal clear really L00b. There is no karma, it's no more than two nations deciding what they feel is best for themselves which they may or may not adapt depending on a forthcoming negotiation.

 

You might also want to read those articles again because neither of them say that the UK expects free movement  UK<>AUS and both of them say that Australia won't be giving it, both two days ago and in September. You seem to be in the hard and fast predictions game which is a bit ambitious given the experience of the last few years and an inability to read the articles you're using to make the predictions.  

Edited January 8, 2020 by Tony

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

 

It's crystal clear really L00b. There is no karma, it's no more than two nations deciding what they feel is best for themselves which they may or may not adapt depending on a forthcoming negotiation.

If it's so crystal clear, then how did your Trade Minister get it so wrong?

1 hour ago, Tony said:

You might also want to read those articles again because neither of them say that the UK expects free movement  UK<>AUS and both of them say that Australia won't be giving it, both two days ago and in September. 

I read them just fine then, and again yesterday, that's why I posted them:

Quote

Tories’ Liz Truss expects UK to secure two-way trade and visa-free work deals after Brexit

You realise that 'visa-free work' means the exact same thing as 'free movement', right?

 

Then again perhaps not, since e.g. you seemingly weren't aware of the UK's own, 11 year-old Australia-style immigration rules.

1 hour ago, Tony said:

You seem to be in the hard and fast predictions game which is a bit ambitious given the experience of the last few years and an inability to read the articles you're using to make the predictions.  

No ambition, nor any credit required: a basic understanding of Law, premised on an acknowledgement of the equally-basic fact that the EU is a legal rules-based construct, makes it fairly easy to predict consequences and outcomes, based on which type/variant of Brexit is sought by the UK.

 

In that context, suffice to say nothing (Brexit-related) in the last few years, least of all the serial brickwall-headbutting of British governments and politicians against 'leaving the EU', has come as a surprise here. Alright, bar perhaps how much rope the EU27 have given May and Johnson since March '19...

 

...but that should now thankfully run out in a little over 3 weeks, when the gloves finally come off (again no ambition nor any credit to that prediction: it's the plain amd unavoidable consequence of the UK becoming a third party country at that point, through loss of relevance and applicability of TEU/ECJ etc., i.e. a competitor rather than a member).

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by L00b

[Tony 10]

This is why many people don't bother here any more. Any chance of conversation is met with a salami-sliced response that reinterprets, distorts and misrepresents in order to win some point that the other person didn't make and cares even less about. It's playground hair pulling and definitely not Oxford Union debate.

 

The simple truth is that UK <> AUS free movement of any kind is a matter for negotiation, always was, always will be.  It's negotiation. Anyone outside the negotiation who is making predictions or having hard expectations really should have a look at themselves, especially on SF. 

 

Find me somebody (apart from you and your point scoring) who cares about AUS travel not being visa free post Brexit and I'll buy you a pint.

 

For what it's worth I would be very surprised if there was not some form of free movement negotiated for certain professions and / or sectors depending on what the other is looking for. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Tony