Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

[Lex Luthor 10]

On 21/10/2019 at 23:40, apelike said:

I think you are getting confused. If A50 gets revoked and we have another referendum then it would obviously include remain as an option again. If A50 is not revoked and a supplementary confirmatory referendum is held it should then be on whether we leave with a proposed deal or leave without a deal. The first referendum has already shown up the fact that the majority that took part in it had already voted by a majority to leave and its how we leave that is at stake now. We keep being told by remainers that a deal or no deal was never mentioned before so it's logical to have any further additional or confirmatory referendum based on just that. But, I have to remind you that it's not up to the public but parliament and as they have already shown they are not keen on revoking A50 and having another referendum that would be the best option and path to go down.

Correct

[Lex Luthor 10]

7 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The very rich are rubbing their hands. They stand to benefit most from Brexit.

 

 

The very rich always benefit the most from everything.

6 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Ironically for the Labour MPs who supported this deal thinking that they would save their seats, they will now hopefully all be deselected, particularly those who voted against May’s ‘softer Brexit’ who now think that it is OK to support Bozo’s ‘harder Brexit’.

Then Labour will be doing them a favour, as working class Brexiters' feel Labour have deserted them and Labour MPs who supported the deal will pick up more votes as independents.

[Lex Luthor 10]

6 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Interestingly, Stephen Kinnock voted against the deal, after spending the past month telling anyone who would listen that he would vote for any Brexit bill proposed.

And haven't his family benefitted from the EU Gravy train!

[Lex Luthor 10]

5 hours ago, Albert the Cat said:

Of the PM's in living memory, she won a legitimate war and rightful crushed a union that was holding the country to ransom. In doing so, she bought the unions' power into check. So I do consider, her competent. So which of your favourite Labour sons would you think is easily competent, Blair?

🤣 Surprise! 🥳👻🎂🎉

4 hours ago, Longcol said:

So you reckon that Parliament can give proper consideration to all this

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eu-withdrawal-agreement-bill

 

in 3 days?

 

Why not have proper scrutiny like we would with a normal bill instead of trying to railroad such an important bill through in a less than a week.

But everyone agrees it's 95% May's deal.  And they've had plenty of time to digest all that, so surely, they've just got 5% of the deal to scrutinize.  Should easily manage that in less than a week.

[Lex Luthor 10]

3 hours ago, Mister M said:

I can't see why folk in Barnsley wouldn;t be so proud....

To be fair, I thought you were above judging a whole town on the response of a few people.  There are some that think this way in Sheffield, no doubt.  Does that mean we should feel ashamed of coming from Sheffield?

3 hours ago, Longcol said:

The views of the Monk Bretton Civil Servants for a Marxist / Moggist Revolutionary Brexit don't seem to have a lot of support.

Would you consider repeatedly using the same made-up names to a poster in posts, without really adding anything to the debate, an act of bullying?

[Lex Luthor 10]

1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I think that you will find it is more than just one or two. 
 

Some of the most reactionary views on Brexit have been from interviews done with the people of Barnsley. Let’s not forget the guy in the barber shop interviewed on Look North the day after the referendum who said “Great news! Now when are we going to get rid of the effing immigrants?” I know a load of people who still think that when we leave the EU, all non-white people will have to leave.

 

If Car Boot thinks that he is going to build a revolution with the help of the dumbest, most racist and reactionary section of the working class he is in for a shock.

Wow!  Even Carl Lewis would be proud of that gigantic leap.

[Albert the Cat 0]

9 hours ago, Car Boot said:

If we don't deliver Brexit then a hard right Tory government with a working majority will be in power for the next five years.

 

It's a straight choice between leaving the EU or Tory austerity. I choose Brexit every time!

How very selfish of you. I’ll choose austerity because it is never right that our children should bear the financial mistakes of our generation. 

[ads36 214]

4 hours ago, Lex Luthor said:

But everyone agrees it's 95% May's deal.  And they've had plenty of time to digest all that

We've covered this, you're talking about the draft agreement, we've moved on, and now talking about the bill itself.

[L00b 441]

5 hours ago, Lex Luthor said:

🤣 But everyone agrees it's 95% May's deal.  And they've had plenty of time to digest all that, so surely, they've just got 5% of the deal to scrutinize.  Should easily manage that in less than a week.

You are mistaking the European withdrawal agreement bill (UK draft legislation implementing the WA) for the withdrawal agreement itself (EU-UK treaty).

 

MPs should be plenty familiar with May's earlier WA to draw fast comparisons with Johnson's WA, sure.

 

But no draft version of any European withdrawal bill was ever published before this week (May never published hers before Johnson took over). So MPs haven't had "plenty of time".

 

For context, anecdotally, the Wild Animals in Circuses Act 2019 enjoyed 11 days of Parliamentary time.

 

Anyone thinking that 'a week' (never mind 3 days) for scrutizing the European withdrawal agreement bill should be enough, is simply demonstrating a staggering degree of ignorance about both the UK legislative process, and the significance of this piece of legislation to UK plc -and all who sail in her- for the next decade or two.

 

The second vote last night was the crucial one for Johnson: with its defeat, there is now no possible way for the UK of Brexiting before 31st October whatsoever.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by L00b

[Lockdoctor 10]

11 hours ago, Albert the Cat said:

It really wasn’t. The timetable vote was far more important as Johnson said he would pull the bill if he couldn’t ram it through in 3 days. 

 

Also, it has been stated that the deal is not formally dead, but it has been rendered inert. 
 

So as Farage has tweeted “we’ve moved on to dying in a ditch”. 

 

 

Of course the first vote was more important because the bill passed the first stage which is further than what Theresa May got with her Withdrawal Agreement.  Boris would have pulled the bill if he hadn't won the first vote, but has only paused the bill because he lost the second timetable vote meaning the legislation can't be completed before 31st October deadline.   We don't know the terms of the extension yet assuming it will be granted, but last night one of the reporters stated there could be a brake clause allowing for an exit on 15th November or 1st December if the bill is brought back and goes through all the stages in Parliament.  However, a General Election does look more likely to happen now meaning our country won't leave the EU before 31st January next year.

 

Nigel Farage is losing support because most Brexit Party voters will accept the compromise Withdrawal Agreement that Boris negotiated with the EU.  Most reasonable people understand that it is not the fault of Boris that 31st October deadline won't be met and Nigel Farage's credibility is on a downward slide and hasn't be helped by his recent comments.

[Lex Luthor 10]

22 minutes ago, L00b said:

You are mistaking the European withdrawal agreement bill (UK draft legislation implementing the WA) for the withdrawal agreement itself (EU-UK treaty).

 

MPs should be plenty familiar with May's earlier WA to draw fast comparisons with Johnson's WA, sure.

 

But no draft version of any European withdrawal bill was ever published before this week (May never published hers before Johnson took over). So MPs haven't had "plenty of time".

 

For context, anecdotally, the Wild Animals in Circuses Act 2019 enjoyed 11 days of Parliamentary time.

 

Anyone thinking that 'a week' (never mind 3 days) for scrutizing the European withdrawal agreement bill should be enough, is simply demonstrating a staggering degree of ignorance about both the UK legislative process, and the significance of this piece of legislation to UK plc -and all who sail in her- for the next decade or two.

 

The second vote last night was the crucial one for Johnson: with its defeat, there is now no possible way for the UK of Brexiting before 31st October whatsoever.

 

 

Yes, indeed I stand corrected.  I read WA on his link but not 'bill' at the end.

[Lex Luthor 10]

15 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Of course the first vote was more important because the bill passed the first stage which is further than what Theresa May got with her Withdrawal Agreement.  Boris would have pulled the bill if he hadn't won the first vote, but has only paused the bill because he lost the second timetable vote meaning the legislation can't be completed before 31st October deadline.   We don't know the terms of the extension yet assuming it will be granted, but last night one of the reporters stated there could be a brake clause allowing for an exit on 15th November or 1st December if the bill is brought back and goes through all the stages in Parliament.  However, a General Election does look more likely to happen now meaning our country won't leave the EU before 31st January next year.

 

Nigel Farage is losing support because most Brexit Party voters will accept the compromise Withdrawal Agreement that Boris negotiated with the EU.  Most reasonable people understand that it is not the fault of Boris that 31st October deadline won't be met and Nigel Farage's credibility is on a downward slide and hasn't be helped by his recent comments.

I wouldn't be too sure, looking at reactions online.  It seems many Brexiters wanting a hard Brexit have dropped Boris and are looking to Farage now as their only chance to deliver a hard Brexit.