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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

Vaati

Mod Note: As we are getting rather tired of seeing reports about this. The use of the word Remoaners  is to cease. Either posts like adults, or don't post at all. The mod warnings have been clear.

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mort

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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58 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

The people who are behaving like children are those criticising  Boris over the letters. It's the job of the UK Government and not Parliament to negotiate treaties.  Boris and the EU negotiated in good faith last week where compromises were made on both sides to get a new Withdrawal Agreement in the hope of ending the Brexit uncertainty on 31st October.  It's absolutely ludicrous to expect our Prime Minister not to express his public objection to an extension  being granted when he doesn't support an extension which he was forced to ask for because of Parliamentary playground game playing.

 

Except he made an undertaking to the Scottish court that he wouldn't try to sabotage the request for an extension. It's difficult to argue that his second letter isn't an attempt to do just that.

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51 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

The people who are behaving like children are those criticising  Boris over the letters. It's the job of the UK Government and not Parliament to negotiate treaties.  Boris and the EU negotiated in good faith last week where compromises were made on both sides to get a new Withdrawal Agreement in the hope of ending the Brexit uncertainty on 31st October.  It's absolutely ludicrous to expect our Prime Minister not to express his public objection to an extension  being granted when he doesn't support an extension which he was forced to ask for because of Parliamentary playground game playing.

 

The delay was caused by Letwin’s amendment because few people trust Boris to conclude this saga without the possibility of a damaging No Deal.

To steamroller any old Brexit through just to say we have fulfilled the wishes of the British people is both a lie and reckless.

I have never seen a project mishandled so badly since the Iraq debacle.

You have managed a post without banging on about democracy.

Parliament is the home of democracy and Johnson is blatantly and petulantly sidestepping those who believe that this agreement deserves much greater scrutiny.

I cannot understand why anyone would vote for a deal which by common assent leaves us in a worse position to that which we already have.

Bring on a final referendum .I am not at all sure that my views would prevail in view of the mass hysteria which seems to have afflicted a substantial chunk of this country.

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7 minutes ago, altus said:

Except he made an undertaking to the Scottish court that he wouldn't try to sabotage the request for an extension. It's difficult to argue that his second letter isn't an attempt to do just that.

He hasn't though. He has sent the letter asking for an extension saying it's what parliament wants aswell as one saying he didn't agree it's in the best interests to do so. The EU can disregard his second letter and grant an extension if they want it.

I don't see why the remainers are getting so worked up about it. 

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1 minute ago, NERVY-OWL said:

He hasn't though. He has sent the letter asking for an extension saying it's what parliament wants aswell as one saying he didn't agree it's in the best interests to do so. The EU can disregard his second letter and grant an extension if they want it.

I don't see why the remainers are getting so worked up about it. 

Because it shows his contempt for anything that obstructs his pursuit of power.

The man has no principles.

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So why did everyone get so worked up over the amendment in the first place?

 

It was only o ensure there was sufficient legislative time to pass everything through Parliament and get the deal Boris spent so much time negotiating.

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15 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Because it shows his contempt for anything that obstructs his pursuit of power.

The man has no principles.

He's doing what he believes is right. He hasn't ignored the act that was voted for on Saturday. He's asked for the extension the Scottish courts said he had to do, he's perfectly free to tell the EU he doesn't agree like any remainer can.

I find it more troubling the fact that the likes of the speaker and other remainers think they can go to the EU behind parliament's back to try to stop Brexit altogether

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38 minutes ago, altus said:

Except he made an undertaking to the Scottish court that he wouldn't try to sabotage the request for an extension. It's difficult to argue that his second letter isn't an attempt to do just that.

He made an undertaken before he got the new Withdrawal Agreement with the EU.  Yesterday's amendment moved the goalposts and Boris will have sought the advice of Government legal experts and not bias members of the Sheffield Forum who don't respect democracy before sending out the letters.

 

 

33 minutes ago, RJRB said:

The delay was caused by Letwin’s amendment because few people trust Boris to conclude this saga without the possibility of a damaging No Deal.

To steamroller any old Brexit through just to say we have fulfilled the wishes of the British people is both a lie and reckless.

I have never seen a project mishandled so badly since the Iraq debacle.

You have managed a post without banging on about democracy.

Parliament is the home of democracy and Johnson is blatantly and petulantly sidestepping those who believe that this agreement deserves much greater scrutiny.

I cannot understand why anyone would vote for a deal which by common assent leaves us in a worse position to that which we already have.

Bring on a final referendum .I am not at all sure that my views would prevail in view of the mass hysteria which seems to have afflicted a substantial chunk of this country.

The Letwin amendment was  not necessary because the ERG had publicly stated they wouldn't sabotage the Withdrawal legislation and risk a no-deal exit by accident after they vote in favour of supporting the new Withdrawal Agreement on offer.  

 

We had a democratic referendum in 2016 where the majority voted to leave the EU which is why MPs  intend to vote in favour of the new Withdrawal Agreement because it respects and implements the wishes of the majority who voted.

Edited by Lockdoctor

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16 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

 

 

 

 

The Letwin amendment was  not necessary because the ERG had publicly stated they wouldn't sabotage the Withdrawal legislation and risk a no-deal exit by accident after they vote in favour of supporting the new Withdrawal Agreement on offer.  

 

We had a democratic referendum in 2016 where the majority voted to leave the EU which is why MPs  intend to vote in favour of the new Withdrawal Agreement because it respects and implements the wishes of the majority who voted.

Letwin and a majority vote considered it necessary.Draw your own conclusions.

It may represent the current wishes of some of the voters,both those who voted Leave and Remain.

So now we have an agreement that is sanctioned by the EU and the government put it back to the country.

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12 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Letwin and a majority vote considered it necessary.Draw your own conclusions.

It may represent the current wishes of some of the voters,both those who voted Leave and Remain.

So now we have an agreement that is sanctioned by the EU and the government put it back to the country.

I agree. Now there's a deal put it to the vote. Either leave with this deal or leave without a deal. That will stop all the uncertainty. Of course that's if the remainer MPs will honour it.

Edited by NERVY-OWL

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36 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

He made an undertaken before he got the new Withdrawal Agreement with the EU.  Yesterday's amendment moved the goalposts and Boris will have sought the advice of Government legal experts and not bias members of the Sheffield Forum who don't respect democracy before sending out the letters.

Those government legal experts are the ones who's advise was so reliable on prorogation. I think I'd rather wait and see what the courts say on the matter.

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36 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Letwin and a majority vote considered it necessary.Draw your own conclusions.

It may represent the current wishes of some of the voters,both those who voted Leave and Remain.

So now we have an agreement that is sanctioned by the EU and the government put it back to the country.

Everyone knows that the majority that voted in favour of the Letwin amendment did so to play for more time to attempt to overturn the democratic 2016 EU referendum result.  Corbyn didn't need more time to  scrutinise the new Withdrawal Agreement because he had already made his mind up to vote against it before the announcement a new agreement had been reached.  The SNP similarly don't need more time to scrutinise the new agreement because they won't change their mind and support the UK leaving the EU.

 

That old undemocratic chestnut about putting it back to the people with the option of Remain on the ballot paper doesn't respect democracy because Remain lost the democratic 2016 EU referendum.  It's a bit like letting Ireland play New Zealand again in the year's  Rugby World Cup and the winners being allowed to play England in the Semi Final.

Edited by Lockdoctor

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6 minutes ago, altus said:

Those government legal experts are the ones who's advise was so reliable on prorogation. I think I'd rather wait and see what the courts say on the matter.

The prorogation situation this year was unprecedented. It's standard practice for the Government of the day to take advice from their own legal experts and not the opposition's legal experts.

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