Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

[Lockdoctor 10]

8 hours ago, Pettytom said:

So, dead people count.

 

And you are happy to claim that 17.4 million people represent “the will of the people”

 

You really are a Democrat. 
 

(That last sentence was sarcasm, btw)

Of course the wishes of dead people who voted in 2016 should count.  Many voters at the time, who sadly are no longer with us knew they wouldn't be around for years to come and will of voted thinking about how their vote was likely to affect the future of their country after they had died.  Both remain and leave voters have died and it it is wrong to ignore their wishes.  It's shameful that those seeking another referendum should use dead people to justify another vote.

[hauxwell 242]

1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said:

Of course the wishes of dead people who voted in 2016 should count.  Many voters at the time, who sadly are no longer with us knew they wouldn't be around for years to come and will of voted thinking about how their vote was likely to affect the future of their country after they had died.  Both remain and leave voters have died and it it is wrong to ignore their wishes.  It's shameful that those seeking another referendum should use dead people to justify another vote.

Thoroughly agree with you.

[francypants 441]

1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said:

Of course the wishes of dead people who voted in 2016 should count.  Many voters at the time, who sadly are no longer with us knew they wouldn't be around for years to come and will of voted thinking about how their vote was likely to affect the future of their country after they had died.  Both remain and leave voters have died and it it is wrong to ignore their wishes.  It's shameful that those seeking another referendum should use dead people to justify another vote.

 

Hear!   Hear!       

 

 

 

 

 

 

[L00b 441]

2 hours ago, Lockdoctor said:

Of course the wishes of dead people who voted in 2016 should count.  Many voters at the time, who sadly are no longer with us knew they wouldn't be around for years to come and will of voted thinking about how their vote was likely to affect the future of their country after they had died.  Both remain and leave voters have died and it it is wrong to ignore their wishes.  It's shameful that those seeking another referendum should use dead people to justify another vote.

Those (most) seeking another referendum are not using dead people to "justify another vote", they are using dead people to guesstimate the hypothetical vote result.

 

The "justification" for another vote is not the arithmetic of the 2016 referendum, nor the mortality rate since, it is the gradual realisation by much of the British public that the benefits which the Leave side promised in its campaigns in 2016 cannot conceivably be delivered, and so perhaps the British public should now yay or nay what can be actually be delivered instead.

 

Whether a second vote ever takes place is pretty much moot.

 

It's a good idea on paper, as a 'last chance to change your mind' opportunity, because there won't be any complaints desks available to anyone in the UK post-Brexit, leaver or remainer alike, if Brexit turns into even half the ****show which all experts (even the Leave ones) have promised; nor will there be any quick fixes: once you're out, ie the other side of Art.50, you're properly out (Art.49 to get back in, with Schengen and the €) and the EU/UK FTA is currently guesstimated by international trade experts at requiring around 8 years' worth of negotiating.

 

But it's immaterial to the EU, because it's a sovereign/domestic politics issue for the UK. And the EU27 are quite happy to wait however long it takes, until the UK is done throwing hissy fits and comes to its senses.

 

Much ado about nothing indeed.

Edited October 15, 2019 by L00b

[Lockdoctor 10]

21 minutes ago, L00b said:

Those (most) seeking another referendum are not using dead people to "justify another vote", they are using dead people to guesstimate the hypothetical vote result.

 

The "justification" for another vote is not the arithmetic of the 2016 referendum, nor the mortality rate since, it is the gradual realisation by much of the British public that the benefits which the Leave side promised in its campaigns in 2016 cannot conceivably be delivered, and so perhaps the British public should now yay or nay what can be actually be delivered instead.

 

Whether a second vote ever takes place is pretty much moot.

 

It's a good idea on paper, as a 'last chance to change your mind' opportunity, because there won't be any complaints desks available to anyone in the UK post-Brexit, leaver or remainer alike, if Brexit turns into even half the ****show which all experts (even the Leave ones) have promised, nor will there be any quick fixes (once you're out, ie the other side of Art.50, you're properly out: Art.49 to get back in, with Schengen and the €). 

 

But it's immaterial to the EU, because it's a sovereign/domestic politics issue for the UK.

I didn't say that those seeking another referendum are just using dead people as an excuse to justify another vote.  Stop spinning. The issue of dead people has cropped up more recently.  Last week there was a discussion on the Jeremy Vine show in which Nina Myskow stated another referendum was justified due to the amount of people who have died since 2016.  In fairness to Nina Myskow she did acknowledge that she was an old person herself.  What I find distasteful is when then younger generation bring up the issue of dead people and criticise  their grandparents if they voted to leave the EU.  The truth is many people who want another referendum are  just selfish people.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Lockdoctor

[Padders 2,833]

2 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

I didn't say that those seeking another referendum are just using dead people as an excuse to justify another vote.  Stop spinning. The issue of dead people has cropped up more recently.  Last week there was a discussion on the Jeremy Vine show in which Nina Myskow stated another referendum was justified due to the amount of people who have died since 2016.  In fairness to Nina Myskow she did acknowledge that she was an old person herself.  What I find distasteful is when then younger generation bring up the issue of dead people and criticise  their grandparents if they vote to leave the EU.  The truth is many people who want another referendum are  just selfish people.

Not often I post on this thread Doc, it just goe's on and on.. However I strongly object to being called selfish..

I voted leave, after weighing up all the Pro's and Con's of leaving, I am now a firm remainer. the 2016 referendum was too close for comfort..

After 3 yrs of debate how many remainers have changed their minds, very few, if any...how many leavers have changed their minds, I would hazard a guess at lots..  after 3 yrs of debating the subject and getting nowhere, its time to ask the voters again.

[L00b 441]

13 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

I didn't say that those seeking another referendum are just using dead people as an excuse to justify another vote.  Stop spinning. The issue of dead people has cropped up more recently.  Last week there was a discussion on the Jeremy Vine show in which Nina Myskow stated another referendum was justified due to the amount of people who have died since 2016.  In fairness to Nina Myskow she did acknowledge that she was an old person herself.  What I find distasteful is when then younger generation bring up the issue of dead people and criticise  their grandparents if they voted to leave the EU.  The truth is many people who want another referendum are  just selfish people.

I'm spinning?

 

I used your exact own words:

2 hours ago, Lockdoctor said:

Of course the wishes of dead people who voted in 2016 should count.  Many voters at the time, who sadly are no longer with us knew they wouldn't be around for years to come and will of voted thinking about how their vote was likely to affect the future of their country after they had died.  Both remain and leave voters have died and it it is wrong to ignore their wishes.  It's shameful that those seeking another referendum should use dead people to justify another vote.

As for the people who want a second referendum, the truth of the matter is that they include a heterogeneous mix of 2016 remain-voting, 2016 leave-voting and 2016 non-voting people, across the left-right political spectrum, i.e. a representative sample of democratically-entitled British citizens, so tagging them as 'just selfish' simply demonstrates the extent of your closed-mindedness.

 

That's still not spinning, btw. Just calling out your bias.

[Lockdoctor 10]

32 minutes ago, Padders said:

Not often I post on this thread Doc, it just goe's on and on.. However I strongly object to being called selfish..

I voted leave, after weighing up all the Pro's and Con's of leaving, I am now a firm remainer. the 2016 referendum was too close for comfort..

After 3 yrs of debate how many remainers have changed their minds, very few, if any...how many leavers have changed their minds, I would hazard a guess at lots..  after 3 yrs of debating the subject and getting nowhere, its time to ask the voters again.

I wasn't calling  any individual here selfish and certainly not you .  I didn't say everyone seeking another referendum is selfish either but many are.  It's a selfish trait not to respect the wishes of the 17.4 million who voted to leave the EU.

 

25 minutes ago, L00b said:

I'm spinning?

 

I used your exact own words:

As for the people who want a second referendum, the truth of the matter is that they include a heterogeneous mix of 2016 remain-voting, 2016 leave-voting and 2016 non-voting people, across the left-right political spectrum, i.e. a representative sample of democratically-entitled British citizens, so tagging them as 'just selfish' simply demonstrates the extent of your closed-mindedness.

 

That's still not spinning, btw. Just calling out your bias.

My original comments were when quoting another member who implied dead people's wishes don't count.  You're always spinning.   I voted to remain so am most certainly not bias.   

Edited October 15, 2019 by Lockdoctor

[tinfoilhat 11]

25 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

I wasn't calling  any individual here selfish and certainly not you .  I didn't say everyone seeking another referendum is selfish either but many are.  It's a selfish trait not to respect the wishes of the 17.4 million who voted to leave the EU.

 

 

But you're happy to call groups of people selfish and shameful literally every other post. Those groups, unsurprisingly, are made up of individuals.

[Lockdoctor 10]

27 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

But you're happy to call groups of people selfish and shameful literally every other post. Those groups, unsurprisingly, are made up of individuals.

Let's be honest those seeking another referendum are not doing so because they have the interests of the 17.4 million who voted to leave the EU at heart. The people who want another referendum are hoping if there is another vote, then the result will be what they want next time which is a selfish wish. The last major vote in this country was the European Elections where the Brexit Party won the most seats and the most votes with one aim which was for our country to leave the EU without a deal.  The people seeking another referendum don't even want the option of a no deal on the ballot paper of another  EU referendum  despite the fact nearly 5.25 million people voted for the Brexit Party in May this year in the European Elections.  To be honest, I think I am being too fair by just labelling groups of people selfish because they also want to rig the ballot paper of another EU referendum to deny those wishing to leave the EU without a deal that choice which is the legal default position.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Lockdoctor

[L00b 441]

57 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

My original comments were when quoting another member who implied dead people's wishes don't count.  You're always spinning.   I voted to remain so am most certainly not bias.   

'Ridiculous' does not begin to cover this post.

 

You voted remain, so that means you cannot biased towards the UK implementing Brexit?

 

Tbh, you sound about ready for a cabinet position 

 

Update on earlier post (#2773): Midnight deadline today, for Johnson to deliver a draft withdrawal agreement text to Barnier.

Edited October 15, 2019 by L00b

[tinfoilhat 11]

17 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Let's be honest those seeking another referendum are not doing so because they have the interests of the 17.4 million who voted to leave the EU at heart. The people who want another referendum are hoping if there is another vote, then the result will be what they want next time which is a selfish wish. The last major vote in this country was the European Elections where the Brexit Party won the most seats and the most votes with one aim which was for our country to leave the EU without a deal.  The people seeking another referendum don't even want the option of a no deal on the ballot paper of another  EU referendum  despite the fact nearly 5.25 million people voted for the Brexit Party in May this year in the European Elections.  To be honest, I think I am being too fair by just labelling groups of people selfish because they also want to rig the ballot paper of another EU referendum to deny those wishing to leave the EU without a deal that choice which is the legal default position.

I think you're a nutcase, a spiteful one at that.

 

People like padders aren't trying to rig anything, they'd like another say on an important issue now they have more information. It's odd you don't aim your bile at liars like Johnson and Cummins who are quite literally trying to rig things.