Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

[apelike 10]

9 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Rarely checked but still checked.  Trying to make comparisons with other EU/non-EU borders won’t work.The Irish border is unique in that citizens on either side of the border have the absolute right to travel, be educated and work on either side of that border.

What bit of rare do you not understand? Comparing it with the Norway model is perfectly valid as they seem to have border controls for goods to comply with the EU and yet none for people and that does not necessarily have to change as they can still have that right. It seems some people want to lump together the rights of people to travel or work either side of the border in Ireland and the need for customs checks for goods etc. I have not suggested that the absolute right to travel, be educated and work on either side of that border will cease.

 

9 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Brexit supporters and Tory Party members want to reduce overall immigration regardless of skills.

Then why is Boris and others talking about, and wanting to introduce a points based system similar to Australia?

[Dardandec 32]

Saw the news topic on ITV earlier with crops rotting in the fields due to a lack of migrant workers. Was this not branded "Project Fear" a year or two back? and didn't a lot of farmers vote leave? you couldn't make this up. As they say, the chickens are coming home to roost, and this is only the start of it.  

[Manlinose 10]

13 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Interesting comment from a former member of the Supreme Court on Newsnight tonight.

 

He said that if Bozo refused to comply with the Benn law by not sending a letter requesting an extension and this was challenged in court, he would lose the case because the law is quite clear and the court would simply send the letter itself.

 

It was also pointed out that any talk of getting Poland or Hungary to veto any extension was a complete non starter. Unless Bozo has literally € billions to offer as a bribe, there is no way either country would sabotage their own economies to help out a Prime Minister who will probably not last more than another six months.

 

So there is little chance of leaving the EU on October 31st and maybe the £millions being spent on Brexit adverts should now be repaid by the Conservative Party.

 

 

There is a very good chance we could still leave the EU on 31st October. The PM can comply with the letter of the law by requesting an extension, but couldn't he also inform our EU partners that he has no intention of negotiating a new deal? thus making any extension subject to the EU believing that he might be ousted and a more pro EU PM elected

[Top Cats Hat 10]

Just now, Dardandec said:

Saw the news topic on ITV earlier with crops rotting in the fields due to a lack of migrant workers. Was this not branded "Project Fear" a year or two back? and didn't a lot of farmers vote leave? 

Probably my favourite ever post-Brexit interview was on Newsnight in the days after the referendum when a Lincolnshire farmer was asked who would pick his harvest next year (at the time people thought that we would be leaving the EU within months). The farmer said that he would be hiring his usual seasonal workers from Romania or Bulgaria. The interviewer pointed out that he would no longer be able to employ anyone from Bulgaria or Romania after the UK leaves the EU. When the farmer asked why not, the interviewer asked ‘Do you even know what you voted for last Thursday?’

 

To me, that sums up many Leave voters who really had little or no idea why they voted as they did (and many still don’t).

[apelike 10]

34 minutes ago, Manlinose said:

We don't, and will never, know what motivated the vote leavers to put their cross in the wrong box, maybe some of them did fully wish to leave without a deal.

To them they put the cross in the correct box.

 

Quote

But the referendum was not a once in a lifetime vote, as I think I read on another post on this thread - it wasn't even a legally binding vote. 

Referendums are not legally binding unless it states otherwise but that does not matter as parliament later approved the result and subsequently passed an act into law that allowed the government to trigger A50. 

 

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... We have General Elections every 5 years or so, and no-one seriously argues that we shouldn't have another one because we made our intentions clear last time, so why should a referendum result be any different?

Its not... The electorate made their intentions clear when they got 52% of the total votes making leave the winning majority. That means the result should now be carried out just like in a GE, we can still have another referendum after this one.

Edited October 4, 2019 by apelike

[Dardandec 32]

6 minutes ago, Manlinose said:

There is a very good chance we could still leave the EU on 31st October. The PM can comply with the letter of the law by requesting an extension, but couldn't he also inform our EU partners that he has no intention of negotiating a new deal? thus making any extension subject to the EU believing that he might be ousted and a more pro EU PM elected

If we applied for an extension to our membership (Which has to be done by law) that extension would be valid for the duration of that period no matter what happens in the meantime, Even military rule would not overturn that.

 

Highly unlikely we would not be granted another extension, If that wasn't granted, that is the only way we will leave with no deal.

[apelike 10]

5 hours ago, Litotes said:

Boris is the culprit here - he is guilty of not only lying to parliament and the queen but also the country.

Just to correct you he did not lie to parliament or her Maj, and I don't think he has to the country either.

[Manlinose 10]

3 minutes ago, apelike said:

 

Its not... The electorate made their intentions clear when they got 52% of the total votes making leave the winning majority. That means the result should now be carried out just like in a GE, we can still have another referendum after this one.

Not as far as the more vociferous leavers are concerned - if I'm understanding their position correctly, we voted to leave so that is what we should do. No scope for another referendum as far as they are concerned

[apelike 10]

17 minutes ago, Dardandec said:

Saw the news topic on ITV earlier with crops rotting in the fields due to a lack of migrant workers. 

That was a load of tosh without much evidence at all to back it up just a few suspect clips. When that was first posted up a while ago it was also stated by the Farmers Union that farmers were worried that in the future they may not have enough labour to pick the crops and that some may be left rotting in the fields. That has not materialised otherwise it would be on the front pages of the news.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

2 minutes ago, apelike said:

Just to correct you he did not lie to parliament or her Maj, and I don't think he has to the country either.

Really?

 

He has spent the last month telling both Parliament and the country that he is making great progress in talks with the EU whereas responses from Brussels to his latest offer shows that nothing has been done at all.

 

In fact for the last month EU officials have been telling us repeatedly that they have seen no proposals whatsoever.

 

(and he lied to the queen about the reasons for proroguing Parliament)

[apelike 10]

2 minutes ago, Manlinose said:

Not as far as the more vociferous leavers are concerned - if I'm understanding their position correctly, we voted to leave so that is what we should do. No scope for another referendum as far as they are concerned

No, just like the first referendum its not up to them anyway as its the government and parliament that make that decision. 

[Manlinose 10]

7 minutes ago, Dardandec said:

If we applied for an extension to our membership (Which has to be done by law) that extension would be valid for the duration of that period no matter what happens in the meantime, Even military rule would not overturn that.

 

Highly unlikely we would not be granted another extension, If that wasn't granted, that is the only way we will leave with no deal.

But surely, the EU will only agree to an extension of they think there is a point to it?

 

If they think the UK Government is not doing it in good faith and has no intention of negotiating a deal which just might be acceptable to both sides, why prolong the inevitable?