Goodbye East Midlands Trains. Hello Emr

[BigAl1 143]

Annie is right that it is the government that bear the blame for the overcrowding and not the train company.

 

yes the 158 may be old but I am not sure on this route how much faster other diesels will be and I would rather a nice refurbished 4 car 158 with a seat than a 3 car 185 and no seat.

[Spiderplant 0]

I completely agree! I use this service regularly to Liverpool, and without a reservation, finding a seat is often difficult, and when it is running late/has technical problems, which is often, the seat reservations are not put out. Standing to Stockport is not something I do easily. If the 4 car 158 is to be replaced with cars comprising fewer seats than a 2 car it will be useless. 

[spilldig 190]

1 hour ago, amnicoll said:

Annie is right that it is the government that bear the blame for the overcrowding and not the train company.

 

yes the 158 may be old but I am not sure on this route how much faster other diesels will be and I would rather a nice refurbished 4 car 158 with a seat than a 3 car 185 and no seat.

I know if anyone says the railways should be re-nationalised they usually get a lot of people who disagree, but I never remember having to stand once when they were nationalised.  No reserved  seats and no need for reserved seats.

[Andy C 86]

1 hour ago, spilldig said:

I know if anyone says the railways should be re-nationalised they usually get a lot of people who disagree, but I never remember having to stand once when they were nationalised.  No reserved  seats and no need for reserved seats.

The Liverpool-Norwich route is run pretty much the same now as BR did before privatisation - same class 158 diesel units with reservations and a refreshment trolley.

 

The timetable has been improved by East Midlands Trains though with sped up journeys and more through trains to Norwich, EMT also increased trains at the Liverpool end from 2 to 4 cars.

 

Service also seems to achieve better punctuality these days.

 

So better than BR. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Andy C

[John_S6 10]

I had the misfortune of being on the 18:42 Manchester-Sheffield EMR "service" on Saturday, part of the Liverpool-Norwich route.  I had seats reserved in coach A, which didn't actually exist as the train only had 2 carriages marked C and D.  With there being hundreds of football fans of both Wednesday and Man Utd crammed onto the train it was a horrific experience, I ended up standing for an hour like sardines in an airless vestibule in sweltering heat with everybody literally pouring with sweat and the floor swimming in urine as someone had used the toilet to stow their bike.

 

Can't believe that they didn't know that it was going to be packed and put on extra carriages, they must have known how many they'd sold in advance let alone the on the day sales (and those without tickets), and was appalled that they didn't even provide a carriage that they'd sold tickets for, sure we couldn't have been the only ones to have reservations in the non existant carriages.

[Guest busdriver1]

2 hours ago, spilldig said:

I know if anyone says the railways should be re-nationalised they usually get a lot of people who disagree, but I never remember having to stand once when they were nationalised.  No reserved  seats and no need for reserved seats.

Not on this route but I certainly had to stand on many occasions when I used to travel by train in the 80's

Edited August 29, 2019 by busdriver1

[Andy C 86]

4 hours ago, John_S6 said:

I had the misfortune of being on the 18:42 Manchester-Sheffield EMR "service" on Saturday, part of the Liverpool-Norwich route.  I had seats reserved in coach A, which didn't actually exist as the train only had 2 carriages marked C and D.  With there being hundreds of football fans of both Wednesday and Man Utd crammed onto the train it was a horrific experience, I ended up standing for an hour like sardines in an airless vestibule in sweltering heat with everybody literally pouring with sweat and the floor swimming in urine as someone had used the toilet to stow their bike.

 

Can't believe that they didn't know that it was going to be packed and put on extra carriages, they must have known how many they'd sold in advance let alone the on the day sales (and those without tickets), and was appalled that they didn't even provide a carriage that they'd sold tickets for, sure we couldn't have been the only ones to have reservations in the non existant carriages.

Abellio EMR has inherited the same timetable that Stagecoach's East Midlands Trains operated for now so that train would have been scheduled as a 4 car train, if it was only 2 cars it would mean they were short due to a break down or similar.

 

It does appear from reports like yours that Abellio may have introduced a policy of cancelling reservations when trains are short formed (don't forget you can claim compensation if you booked a seat and had to stand). 

 

Trains on that sort of service do not get overbooked as such, any reservation made are associated with a seat number and not all seats are reservable, however the British way is to also be allowed to buy a flexible ticket valid to walk up on any train without booking, overcrowding occurs when too many people turn up without booking - some would argue it is better to have the choice to stand or wait for the next train rather than simply getting turned away if its full.

 

Last weekend would have been worse as the East Coast route to Kings Cross and West Coast route to Euston were closed for engineering work and passengers were being diverted across to Sheffield for trains to London St Pancras - aside from sports fixtures and other special events.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Andy C

[1978 14]

13 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

The Government are more than happy to suppress demand on the route between Sheffield and Manchester through overcrowding.

This greatly harms the economy of Derbyshire and South Yorkshire.

 

The "4 cars" that run once an hour (Nottingham-Liverpool)are of the Class 158 type which are old slow and soon to be replaced.

 

The current  3 car 185 TPE type trains have a lower seating capacity than a 2 car 158.

A 6 car 185 is too long for Dore and other stations and needs two Guards.

 

Other trains will become available like the HST 125, The Meridians from MML and even locomotive hauled ones.

 

Every plan announced over the last thirty years has been stopped/delayed  by the Government and they have left us with slower line speeds, two sections of single track, semaphore signalling, short trains and seriously overcrowding on weekdays and weekends.

6 cars are indeed too long for 4* carriage length Dore but with selective door opening, SDO, they manage to do it, and will be doing it more now that 6 car trains are imminent on peak hour services. 

 

There are several difficulties with 6 car trains of 2 x 185 units.  2 guards is one,  but another is the need for two refreshment trolleys if that service is to be offered. At present of the 3 operators across the South Pennine route (Hope Valley) only TPE provides first class. First class ticket holders may be in the first or last coach, or on a 6 coach train possibly in the middle. Without a reserved seat one section may be full and the other empty (usually all reserved seats are in the first 3 car unit - season ticket holders don't normally get reserved seats). Standard or first there's no way to walk from one unit to the other to equalise the load once  aboard the train.

 

There are also platform availability issues at Manchester Airport, and sometimes at Piccadilly with 6 car trains. One answer to be used is for the first 3 carriages to be left at Piccadilly while the rear three only go on to the Airport. It will be interesting to see how that works in regular practice.

 

* Lengthening to 6 and second platform due by 2023.

[BigAl1 143]

21 hours ago, spilldig said:

I know if anyone says the railways should be re-nationalised they usually get a lot of people who disagree, but I never remember having to stand once when they were nationalised.  No reserved  seats and no need for reserved seats.

The government specify what services they want from the Train companies and are very happy then to sit back and let the train companies take the resulting flak. The decision to force  overcrowding on Northern was a disgrace. The big question about any nationalisation now is how it would be  funded and managed - remember that under privatisation the government ended up spending far more on the railways than they ever did when they owned them and you would probably have the dead hand of the department of transport to ensure chaos

 

You may not have had to stand but I can remember having to stand on a regular basis in and around London and on InterCity services back then

 

 

 

 

 

[Robin-H 11]

22 hours ago, spilldig said:

I know if anyone says the railways should be re-nationalised they usually get a lot of people who disagree, but I never remember having to stand once when they were nationalised.  No reserved  seats and no need for reserved seats.

This (tiny) little graph goes some way to explaining why trains are busier these days. Passengers numbers have rocketed since privatisation. 

 

 

 

[BigAl1 143]

Yes indeed that is true but for years Northern as part of its franchise agreement was not allowed to invest in additional carriages/ trains to cater for the extra passengers but was forced to adopt a no growth strategy and leave them standing

[taxman 12]

11 hours ago, amnicoll said:

Yes indeed that is true but for years Northern as part of its franchise agreement was not allowed to invest in additional carriages/ trains to cater for the extra passengers but was forced to adopt a no growth strategy and leave them standing

Really, where does it say that in their franchise agreement?