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Shechita & Halal. Identifiable On All Meat & Meat Products Yes/No.

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9 minutes ago, makapaka said:

 Ahh yes - the deer wandering about minding its own business with a bloke with a gun tracking it and shooting it dead must be forever grateful ....#notallheroeswearcapes

 

likewise the pig that is either sticked or stunned before having its throat cut must he eternally grateful that it did so without someone talking  in the background.

 

None of it is right if you really break it down - so why pick on one practice?

 

But you’d agree that one is worse than the other? 

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Just now, Robin-H said:

But you’d agree that one is worse than the other? 

No. thats my point.

 

they're all relatively quick ways of murdering defenceless animals.

 

People might have a preference over the method if It makes them feel better - but it’s just hypocrisy.

 

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13 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

But you’d agree that one is worse than the other? 

When did you stop beating your wife?

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21 minutes ago, makapaka said:

No. thats my point.

 

they're all relatively quick ways of murdering defenceless animals.

 

People might have a preference over the method if It makes them feel better - but it’s just hypocrisy.

 

That’s silly. 

 

One is clearly  worse than the other. I’m not talking about ritual slaughter, just the dispatching of animals in a slaughterhouse generally, the way the vast majority of animals for consumption are killed. 

 

If given the choice you’d be lying if you said you saw absolutely no distinction between going about your daily business (foraging in the forest, say) and being shot through the head (you wouldn’t even be aware you had been killed) and being loaded onto a truck crammed with other animals, driven for miles, off loaded into a noisy slaughterhouse, roughly manhandled and then bolt gunned through the head. 

 

How is preferring an animal is killed instantly and without their knowing over the stress and horror that animals shipped off to slaughterhouses feel, hypocritical?  

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5 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

That’s silly. 

 

One is clearly  worse than the other. I’m not talking about ritual slaughter, just the dispatching of animals in a slaughterhouse generally, the way the vast majority of animals for consumption are killed. 

 

If given the choice you’d be lying if you said you saw absolutely no distinction between going about your daily business (foraging in the forest, say) and being shot through the head (you wouldn’t even be aware you had been killed) 

Do you think that animals that are killed under halal procedures are aware that they have been killed?

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

Do you think that animals that are killed under halal procedures are aware that they have been killed?

 

No not literally. Obviously nobody is aware of anything after they’ve been killed. 

 

I suppose what I meant was ‘aware they are about to be or are in the process of being killed’, but the point I was making was that an animal going about its daily business and shot and killed instantly by a hunter would be dead before they knew anything was happening. They wouldn’t even hear the gunshot. 

 

That is certainly not true of an animal taken to a slaughterhouse, as they would suffer hours (and more likely days) of terrible stress and anguish, and as undercover investigations have revealed, sometimes terrible abuse. 

Edited by Robin-H

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So, surely it follows from

that that the method of slaughter isn’t the real issue. The life of the animal is what really matters 

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1 minute ago, Pettytom said:

So, surely it follows from

that that the method of slaughter isn’t the real issue. The life of the animal is what really matters 

How come? 

 

Why doesn’t the method of slaughter matter? There are clearly gradations in that some methods are a lot better than others. That must count for something - just like the way people would like to die count. 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

That’s silly. 

 

One is clearly  worse than the other. I’m not talking about ritual slaughter, just the dispatching of animals in a slaughterhouse generally, the way the vast majority of animals for consumption are killed. 

 

If given the choice you’d be lying if you said you saw absolutely no distinction between going about your daily business (foraging in the forest, say) and being shot through the head (you wouldn’t even be aware you had been killed) and being loaded onto a truck crammed with other animals, driven for miles, off loaded into a noisy slaughterhouse, roughly manhandled and then bolt gunned through the head. 

 

How is preferring an animal is killed instantly and without their knowing over the stress and horror that animals shipped off to slaughterhouses feel, hypocritical?  

Well for one there is zero need to go and murder a wild animal in a forest - none whatsoever.

 

so then we get back to slaughterhouses - and the diffference between halal and non halal.

 

both which involve sticking , stunning and slicing defenceless animals.

 

the decision as to whether that’s right or wrong is  up the individual - I eat meat.

 

i don’t go about making out that people who slaughter defenceless animals slightly differently are barbaric whilst happily eating lamb chops generated in an equally  unpleasant manner either.

Edited by makapaka

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Just now, makapaka said:

Well for one there is zero need to go and murder a wild animal in a forest - none whatsoever.

 

so then we get back to slaughterhouses - and the diffference between halal and non halal.

 

both which involve sticking , stunning and slicing defenceless animals.

 

the decision as to whether that’s right or wrong is  up the individual - I eat meat.

 

i don’t go about making out that people who slaughter defenceless animals slightly differently are barbaric whilst happily eating lamb chops.

That’s not true. Population control for some species is necessary now that their natural predators no longer live in this country. 

 

I would also absolutely rather be shot in the head if I had no prior warning at all than I think probably any other way of dying. I would certainly prefer it to say, breaking a leg and slowly starving to death because I couldn’t feed myself, or being mauled to death by a larger animal. Wild animals killed instantly by a hunter I think probably have the best death possible. 

 

I’m not sure why the rest of your post is relevant to my comments. I’ve not distinguished between Halal and non halal slaughter (indeed made a point to mention that I wasn’t).

 

My comment was in response to what seemed like you saying there was no difference to an animal between the two options myself and others outlined (killed instantly in the wild and transported to a slaughterhouse). I don’t believe that to be true for the reasons I stated. 

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40 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

That’s silly. 

 

One is clearly  worse than the other. I’m not talking about ritual slaughter, just the dispatching of animals in a slaughterhouse generally, the way the vast majority of animals for consumption are killed. 

 

If given the choice you’d be lying if you said you saw absolutely no distinction between going about your daily business (foraging in the forest, say) and being shot through the head (you wouldn’t even be aware you had been killed) and being loaded onto a truck crammed with other animals, driven for miles, off loaded into a noisy slaughterhouse, roughly manhandled and then bolt gunned through the head. 

 

How is preferring an animal is killed instantly and without their knowing over the stress and horror that animals shipped off to slaughterhouses feel, hypocritical?  

So the rabbit foraging for food has some idyllic existence does it? You seem to ignore that it is constantly in fear for its life, always on the lookout for owls, hawks etc from above, as well as foxes, dogs and people on the ground. It lives its whole life in a state of fear. It’s that fear that helps to keep it alive.

 

Contrast this with farm animals who soon learn to not fear the farmer. They go about their day to day life without the permanent stress suffered by wild animals.

 

Go anywhere near a wild deer, and it will bolt. Do the same to a farmed cow, and the worst it will do is amble away. Or it will come towards you, especially if it thinks it’s going to be fed.

 

Very close to slaughter I’m sure farm animals do become stressed, but only at the very end. Wild animals, on the other hand, are permanently stressed.

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1 minute ago, Eater Sundae said:

So the rabbit foraging for food has some idyllic existence does it? You seem to ignore that it is constantly in fear for its life, always on the lookout for owls, hawks etc from above, as well as foxes, dogs and people on the ground. It lives its whole life in a state of fear. It’s that fear that helps to keep it alive.

 

Contrast this with farm animals who soon learn to not fear the farmer. They go about their day to day life without the permanent stress suffered by wild animals.

 

Go anywhere near a wild deer, and it will bolt. Do the same to a farmed cow, and the worst it will do is amble away. Or it will come towards you, especially if it thinks it’s going to be fed.

 

Very close to slaughter I’m sure farm animals do become stressed, but only at the very end. Wild animals, on the other hand, are permanently stressed.

So what’s your point?

 

Shooting wild animals is somehow worse because wild animals are stressed anyway? I don’t think that changes my argument at all, indeed it actually reinforces it. I never said wild animals have it better than farm animals over their whole life, indeed I said the vast majority of wild animals have terrible deaths.

 

 

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