Shechita & Halal. Identifiable On All Meat & Meat Products Yes/No.

[Guest makapaka]

2 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

I am not criticising other religions. You will not be able to find a single post of mine in this thread where I have criticised Islam or Judaism, indeed of the two ritual practices I have more than once defended Islam, as halal meat is stunned pre slaughter in the vast majority of cases.

 

I care about animal welfare. Saying that because both cause suffering to animals there is no point trying to minimise suffering where possible is a nonsensical, and quite frankly quite cruel, argument. 

The criticism of religions wasn’t aimed at you.

 

im not advocating minimising suffering either - I’m saying both of the current practices are cruel - the videos posted above demonstrate that.

 

people taking the moral high ground because some worker attempts to put a charge through their brain (or not bother at all and just stick them) is somehow ok, and halal is “abhorrent” is in my mind hypocritical.

 

i also think true believers in animal welfare wouldn’t eat them when they don’t need to. 

 

 

[redruby 279]

Well said. Quite frankly I bored of people being outraged by anything that could possibly by any stretch of the imagination be a criticism of a religion.  

[Guest makapaka]

Just now, gaz 786 said:

Regardless of religion this thread has turned to a debate about animal cruelty on a vast scale I for one would like an end to this barbaric method of killing animals... 

 

 

How would you kill them or are you vegetarian?

[Robin-H 11]

16 minutes ago, makapaka said:

The criticism of religions wasn’t aimed at you.

 

im not advocating minimising suffering either - I’m saying both of the current practices are cruel - the videos posted above demonstrate that.

 

people taking the moral high ground because some worker attempts to put a charge through their brain (or not bother at all and just stick them) is somehow ok, and halal is “abhorrent” is in my mind hypocritical.

 

i also think true believers in animal welfare wouldn’t eat them when they don’t need to. 

 

 

I am sure a lot of people hypocritically use halal slaughter to criticise islam. 

 

It is also possible to want to minimise the suffering of animals and understand that one achievable method of doing that would be to make sure that abattoirs use methods that are proven to cause the least suffering possible. I believe that it is not ok to just say 'animal slaughter is cruel regardless, so it doesn't matter how it's done, there's no point trying to minimise suffering'. 

[Robin-H 11]

56 minutes ago, gaz 786 said:

No point wanting to minimise suffering sorry I think there is... 

Yes, hence why I said I didn't think it was OK to say that.. 

[Guest makapaka]

1 hour ago, Robin-H said:

I am sure a lot of people hypocritically use halal slaughter to criticise islam. 

 

It is also possible to want to minimise the suffering of animals and understand that one achievable method of doing that would be to make sure that abattoirs use methods that are proven to cause the least suffering possible. I believe that it is not ok to just say 'animal slaughter is cruel regardless, so it doesn't matter how it's done, there's no point trying to minimise suffering'. 

So you are against Halal but pro current UK slaughter methods?

[Robin-H 11]

3 minutes ago, makapaka said:

So you are against Halal but pro current UK slaughter methods?

Haha where have I said that! Don't put words in my mouth please. 

[Guest makapaka]

Just now, Robin-H said:

Haha where have I said that! Don't put words in my mouth please. 

Ok I wasn’t intending to do that.

 

what is your position?

 

do you need to know how an animal has been killed before you buy the meat and what form of killing are you happy with?

[Robin-H 11]

Just now, makapaka said:

Ok I wasn’t intending to do that.

 

what is your position?

 

do you need to know how an animal has been killed before you buy the meat and what form of killing are you happy with?

As I have repeatedly said throughout this thread. I am not against halal. I said that in my very first comment, and I'm reiterating that point now. In bold. 

 

I am also not 'pro UK slaughter methods' (I assume by that you mean  stunning animals before slaughter, even tho non stun slaughter is also a UK slaughter method). Again, I have repeatedly said in this thread that treatment of animals in slaughterhouses across the board can be abhorrent - it doesn't matter what type of slaughterhouse it is. 

 

It has been shown that non stun slaughter does cause greater suffering to animals than if the animals are stunned beforehand. Of course, animals can also suffer in other ways in slaughterhouses, which is why I think (and said right at the start) that slaughterhouses should be tightly regulated, with regular inspections and gradings, CCTV, etc etc to ensure that suffering to animals is minimised wherever possible. That includes how long they have travelled to the abattoir, how they travelled, where they are kept, how they are handled, and the method of slaughter. If one method is found to cause more suffering than another, it shouldn't be allowed, just like if one method of transportation caused more suffering than other, that shouldn't be allowed either. 

 

I don't eat red meat (beef, lamb, pork, veal etc). I sometimes eat (free range) chicken and fish. Chickens are killed by gas. 

[Guest makapaka]

7 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

As I have repeatedly said throughout this thread. I am not against halal. I said that in my very first comment, and I'm reiterating that point now. In bold. 

 

I am also not 'pro UK slaughter methods' (I assume by that you mean  stunning animals before slaughter, even tho non stun slaughter is also a UK slaughter method). Again, I have repeatedly said in this thread that treatment of animals in slaughterhouses across the board can be abhorrent - it doesn't matter what type of slaughterhouse it is. 

 

It has been shown that non stun slaughter does cause greater suffering to animals than if the animals are stunned beforehand. Of course, animals can also suffer in other ways in slaughterhouses, which is why I think (and said right at the start) that slaughterhouses should be tightly regulated, with regular inspections and gradings, CCTV, etc etc to ensure that suffering to animals is minimised wherever possible. That includes how long they have travelled to the abattoir, how they travelled, where they are kept, how they are handled, and the method of slaughter. If one method is found to cause more suffering than another, it shouldn't be allowed, just like if one method of transportation caused more suffering than other, that shouldn't be allowed either. 

 

I don't eat red meat (beef, lamb, pork, veal etc). I sometimes eat (free range) chicken and fish. Chickens are killed by gas. 

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you said.

 

 But why are people passive about Uk slaughter rules but incandescent about halal slaughter rules?

[Top Cats Hat 10]

14 minutes ago, makapaka said:

But why are people passive about Uk slaughter rules but incandescent about halal slaughter rules?

I suspect that they are the same people who are passive about child sex abuse but incandescent about child sex abuse when carried out by Pakistani men.

[Halibut 12]

If anyone is really committed to minimising  animal cruelty they'd just stop eating animals - anything short of that is just arguing about the minutiae.