Whalley Bridge Incident Overkill?

[Robin-H 11]

4 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Not really. It happens more often than you think.

 

You have no idea what discussions went on during the early hours of this incident and who was involved in those discussions. There was certainly no more than a visual inspection of the damage at the time, so that discussion would have involved a great deal of ‘what if?s’ and ‘we don’t really know!s’. Also the engineers don’t make the decisions, they just advise and it’s up to the authorities to accept or reject that advice.

It has been reported that engineers said that replacing the load on the core was crucial. This is what the bags of ballast are for. That wasn't a decision by the authorities, but advice from the engineers. 

[alchresearch 214]

This "report" comes from a colleague of mine there on Saturday evening:

 

Quote

The logistical situation within #whaleybridge remains insane. Asides from a humanitarian element of the relocation of the every single resident within the space of 15 minutes, the simple task of feeding and sustaining the thousands of responders on scene is unreal.

 

Reports on Twitter and LinkedIn suggest that pretty much every single supplier of commercially available aggregate and sand product has been requisitioned at the political level.

 

The situation is now one of the physical supply of absolutely uncharted levels of building materials and the methods in which this is being managed is similar to what one might expect if our country was at war. Entire national stocks of grout and aggregate materials are being requisitioned and you only have to stand at any one of the police closure points to observe endless streams of articulated trucks on the move.

 

Trucks continue to move 24/7 under blue light. Drivers on social media outlets are widely sharing that vehicle weight capacities and driver hours are reported to be of no consideration for as long as the “war effort” continues.

 

Government/council and privately owned sites within the area have been requisitioned by military and civilian organisations in order to deliver the response. Football pitches, schools, even the high streets have been commandeered and turned into storage, loading and even helicopter landing sites.

 

Royal Air Force Chinook helicopters are operating around the clock, clocking up some of the most intense hours accumulated on such craft in peace time operations. The physical ability of a Chinook to remain in operational service is now being challenged by the sheer intensity of works they are undertaking.

 

At last count there were almost 20 high output pumps commissioned or being commissioned on site with the flow rates now in the millions of litres. The flow is so great that local rivers including the Goyt are in flood for the first time in their existence due to the effect of man and not nature.

 

Thus far all this effort has lead to a drop of just around one meter in the water level. Seven days of rain are due and the company who own the dam acknowledge that several further meters of water require draining before the risk can even be considered as “reduced”.

 

The majority of councils in the UK have supplied their entire stocks of equipment related to flood management to the cause, and these items remain stored on main roads and car parks around the area. Not only to mitigate against failure of the dam but the inevitable outcome should even a partial failure occur. 7 councils remain on site in addition to the local council.

 

A vast number of Mountain Rescue teams have been on site for days, and remain on 24 hour standby, along with HART teams and other bodies whom are the only bodies able to deal with the majority of situations likely to unfold.

 

The majority of roads surrounding the area remain closed, including roads many miles away including every single road crossing of the River Goyt due to the effect a collapse would have on the integrity of these structures.

When you have news stories of "pathetic Britain" failing to cope with the hot weather, its good to know we can still do some things right when things go wrong.

[francypants 441]

51 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Not really. It happens more often than you think.

 

You have no idea what discussions went on during the early hours of this incident and who was involved in those discussions. There was certainly no more than a visual inspection of the damage at the time, so that discussion would have involved a great deal of ‘what if?s’ and ‘we don’t really know!s’. Also the engineers don’t make the decisions, they just advise and it’s up to the authorities to accept or reject that advice.

 

I shouldn't think you have either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Top Cats Hat 10]

11 minutes ago, francypants said:

 

I shouldn't think you have either.

Which is why I haven’t claimed that I have.

[Guest makapaka]

3 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Which is why I haven’t claimed that I have.

Sorry but by the sounds of it you're in no position to criticise what's going on - given that you've don't know what's going on - other than some videos on the news.

 

Engineers have visited the site and do know what's going on - and are therefore also able to propose a solution.

[Mister M 1,625]

I've just been reading an interview in the Guardian with some of the people in Whaley Bridge refusing to leave their homes and their pets.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/05/whaley-bridge-residents-deny-risking-emergency-crews-lives

I understand that they don't want to leave their pets and it's very stressful, but if, God forbid, the worst happens then the rescue teams would be obliged to go in to try and save the residents who have refused to leave their properties. How would these people feel if some of the emergency crew lost their lives to try and save them?

It's possibly a controversial opinion, but I think the people refusing to leave their properties are being selfish.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Mister M

[Top Cats Hat 10]

7 minutes ago, Mister M said:

It's possibly a controversial opinion, but I think the people refusing to leave their properties are being selfish.

Not really.

 

They have made a risk assessment and decided that although the severity of the outcome would be critical or catastrophic, the actual risk itself is extremely low. I don’t stop driving my car because the outcome of someone cutting my brake lines would be catastrophic to me and other road users, because the chances of that happening are extremely low.

 

I don’t consider myself selfish for driving my car and neither should anyone who choses to stay in their home in Whaley Bridge.

[tinfoilhat 11]

9 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Not really.

 

They have made a risk assessment........

Pfffff I bet half can't spell it and the other half are old dears who won't be moved out for fear of ending up in Shady Pines home for the elderly on a permanent basis and/or looters. Pets can be moved, they were moved in!

[Guest makapaka]

17 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Not really.

 

They have made a risk assessment and decided that although the severity of the outcome would be critical or catastrophic, the actual risk itself is extremely low. I don’t stop driving my car because the outcome of someone cutting my brake lines would be catastrophic to me and other road users, because the chances of that happening are extremely low.

 

I don’t consider myself selfish for driving my car and neither should anyone who choses to stay in their home in Whaley Bridge.

If I was in my house and an engineer arrived with the emergency services and said there was a danger of a dam bursting which would cause a risk to my life I would listen to them.

 

i wouldn’t trust the opinion who has watched some footage on look north.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

2 minutes ago, makapaka said:

i wouldn’t trust the opinion who has watched some footage on look north.

I’m not sure that they would be able to watch Look North as I believe that electricity and gas have been cut to some of the affected areas of the town.

[*_ash_* 88]

41 minutes ago, Mister M said:

[...] but if, God forbid, the worst happens then the rescue teams would be obliged to go in to try and save the residents who have refused to leave their properties. How would these people feel if some of the emergency crew lost their lives to try and save them?

It's possibly a controversial opinion, but I think the people refusing to leave their properties are being selfish.

It's too black and white this, as the situation constantly changes,

 

also, although of course we want emergency people to help us when in trouble, we can't 'opt out' of their obligations. So in a sense, selfish isn't the right meaning for me. I don't have to the option to say to them, ''look just leave me, if I get in trouble if it bursts now, then I'll take my chances''.

 

There is potentially a point where I might want to do this.

 

At first of course, when they were moved out, we all saw the footage when it 'looked vulnerable', and at that point, when there was serious threat, then you could say is selfish (if it's gradable). but I think they would/ could be forced out, if the force decided. Not much chance of being saved if they in a house that gets swept away anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[*_ash_* 88]

23 minutes ago, makapaka said:

If I was in my house and an engineer arrived with the emergency services and said there was a danger of a dam bursting which would cause a risk to my life I would listen to them.

 

i wouldn’t trust the opinion who has watched some footage on look north.

top: yes, of course me too. (although listen to them and acting, could be picked up on)

 

I haven't watched Look North

I can't stand the set up of:

Woman: 'So,... today, I'm going to start a sentence'

Man: *giggles* ...'and I'm going to finish it', and this continues throughout the programme.

 

(lots of programmes do this nowadays, I don't watch them)

 

but...

 

At what point would YOU think that you want to make the decision?

 

Say you go up to the engineers, and emergency services, and they say this:

 

Engineer - 'the risk now of a breach is extremely low, the levels are low, however until empty we can't evaluate the possible damage, or leakage in the lower parts'

Emer Serv - 'So we're still advising staying away, until they say is completely safe'

 

? This is obviously an exaggeration, but just pointing out there is a sliding scale.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by *_ash_*