France To Reintroduce National Service

[Pettytom 1]

22 minutes ago, Janus said:

As usual the opening subject as gone off topic.

 

In respect of proper nation service of 2 years duration, like it used to be in the UK. This is what I am in favour of.

 

So yes of course you would expect to be paid. 

 

If ever there came a time when the armed forced were unable to recruit, there would  no longer be a choice.

 

The letter would be dropping through your letterbox.

 

Take a moment to be thankfull  that it is not you coming home from Afghanistan in a coffin, like it was a few years ago.

It isn’t off topic at all. There are clear links between National Service and forcing kids onto job creation schemes.

 

Compelling them to do something like that simply won’t work. 

 

Take me a look at the National Citizens Service. That’s the way forward if you want to do something.

 

An even better way would be some jobs with prospects for our youngsters, especially the less academic ones.

[Ridgewalk 101]

On 26/07/2019 at 10:15, Longcol said:

France and the UK are pretty much tied for 20th most populous country on the planet.

 

I don't think the French plans will amount to a great deal - they seem to be little more than the work experience we've seen in the UK. Like many of Macron's ideas it is only a proposal at this stage and has already been wartered down from his original proposals. Can't see it working in rural areas like round where I live beyond free farm labour.

France has real social problems. People living in the " banlieue" of the big cities, largely North African, Sub Saharan African, have a vastly different life experience than other areas of France,  poverty, unemployment, drugs, crime and discrimination across a broad spectrum. Their  relationship with the French State, notably the police is less than ideal.

 

I think that  one of the ideas of National Service is to brink young people from different backgrounds together to try to breakdown barriers, suspicion and misunderstanding.

 

These problems aren't helped by the rigidity  and inflexibility of French Republican values, especially " laïcité " ( secularism).

 

[Ridgewalk 101]

On 26/07/2019 at 10:15, Longcol said:

France and the UK are pretty much tied for 20th most populous country on the planet.

 

I don't think the French plans will amount to a great deal - they seem to be little more than the work experience we've seen in the UK. Like many of Macron's ideas it is only a proposal at this stage and has already been wartered down from his original proposals. Can't see it working in rural areas like round where I live beyond free farm labour.

Which part of France are you in Longcol ?

[ANGELFIRE1 10]

On 26/07/2019 at 10:40, Longcol said:

What about todays adults? Has anyone under 80 done national service?

I was too busy working.

 

Angel1.

[Janus 28]

On 26/07/2019 at 10:40, Longcol said:

What about todays adults? Has anyone under 80 done national service?

Apparently national service started to be wrapped up in Nov 1960. A person would have to have been born around 1942 latest, to be the final ones to sign up.

 

There will still be a few guys living who did.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Janus

[Longcol 602]

1 hour ago, Janus said:

Apparently national service started to be wrapped up in Nov 1960. A person would have to have been born around 1942 latest, to be the final ones to sign up.

 

There will still be a few guys living who did.

Yep - we've got the majority of the population who led useful, happy lives without doing national service - and yet many seem to want the next generation to do national service.

 

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

[whiteowl 54]

1 hour ago, Longcol said:

Yep - we've got the majority of the population who led useful, happy lives without doing national service - and yet many seem to want the next generation to do national service.

 

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

I stand by my first comment, most people who want this to happen are people who are too old to have to do it themselves, gotta love those boomers 🙄

[L00b 441]

8 hours ago, Longcol said:

Yep - we've got the majority of the population who led useful, happy lives without doing national service - and yet many seem to want the next generation to do national service.

 

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

France wrapped it up with generations  born to 1st Jan 77 latest (IIRC) which is how and why I still did mine in the late 90s, after years of deferral whilst I completed tertiary studies.

 

After the upbringing I had, I really didn't need to learn about discipline, nor to learn how to take orders, shoot, field-strip and clean a weapon, take care of my kit & myself, etc.

 

But if I hadn't gone & done it, some day a couple burly foreign legionnaires would have been at my door in the UK (or wherever else: tracking, capturing and fetching back AWOLs has long, long been one of the Légion's specific side jobs), handcuffed me, took me on a plane, for me to then serve my 12m in the military nick. So I had to put my life, career, etc. on hold for 12m (I'd already been in UK 3 years by then).

 

I'd opted for paratroop, because I'd just got married, and that specialty was double-leave (2 weeks in 12m i/of 1) and double-pay (2nd class private rate: €114pm net, i/of €52), plus the battalion was close to my hometown. But then the army GP said no, due to a depth perception problem.

 

So, thinking of doing something good for society, 'giving back' or whatever, I opted for the 'civil' branch: still living under military code (all draftees do, during their entire national service), I'd be assigned to some "hard" school or college in a "banlieue", there to help teachers with oversight/discipline, and to help kids with school and life generally. Think social/teacher assistant/courtyard monitor, with a buzz cut.

 

That is not what I ended up doing. Now I'm not complaining about the posting, because it was probably the most interesting national service posting one could ever do, short of working in the Elysée Palace or the Ministries - and that posting was a complete fluke. But suffice to say I ended up doing a 'Classe A' civil servant job (€35k on scale, usually at least 10 years seniority in job before getting there) for 10 months, on €52pm. Very budget-friendly extra manpower for the local administration, you see.

 

Don't kid yourself that draftees the length and breadth of France weren't being 'used' in exactly the same way, for years before (since the French Army went professional, really: little time and budget for national service types, just park'em somewhere useful/harmless for 12m and forget about'em).

 

Different kettle of fish up to the early 80s of course, when NATO was still expecting Commies to reach Britanny in 3 days, wherein every able and draftable body would count.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by L00b

[Janus 28]

12 hours ago, Longcol said:

Yep - we've got the majority of the population who led useful, happy lives without doing national service - and yet many seem to want the next generation to do national service.

 

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

The issue is the minority though, who arn't leading useful happy lives. 

 

The police forces and our government don't know what to do. They do not know what the answer is to knife crime is.

 

Young lives being snuffed out by stabbings. Usually we hear it weekly on the news. Sometimes there has been several in  the same day, and no-one has an answer.

 

Out of desperation we say bring back national service, and all manner of other ideas. 

 

Nothing seems to be working. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Janus
Typo

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3 minutes ago, Janus said:

Nothing seems to be working. 

you mean 10 years of cuts to policing, community groups, young offender rehabilitation, etc. etc. etc. has coincided with an increase in crime?

 

i'm shocked!

[Janus 28]

Do you have anything helpful or constructive?

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(by less than subtle implication)

 

perhaps reversing the damaging cuts might help?