Voice of reason   0 #25 Posted June 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, retep said: Your car that is up to 50%  plastic. I'm not proposing all travelling round on ox, I'm saying we have to act, and sharpish. Or we can just shrug and say it's all too difficult and inconvenient, and watch on as we suffocate, and slowly overheat and subsequently starve. Your car example is handy though. Scrap cars have to be broken down and separated into their different materials. So they are left with a pile of shredded steel, shredded aluminium, copper etc. Plastics are separated out and dealt with as best as can be. Things need to change, it's clear to see what's happening otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
petemcewan   27 #26 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) Voice of Reason Then our industrialised society cannot continue? Those countries taking off into industrial economies must be held in check? Not everybody can have a car, a dishwasher, washing machine etc? Nobody is going to live on the Moon or Mars and nobody is going to live to 1000. Edited June 5, 2019 by petemcewan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #27 Posted June 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, petemcewan said: Voice of Reason Then our industrialised society cannot continue? Those countries taking off into industrial economies must be held in check? Not everybody can have a car, a dishwasher, washing machine etc? Nobody is going to live on the Moon or Mars and nobody is going to live to 1000. There are ways and means. We don't need to go back to horse and cart, but changes have to be made. Failing that, keep going. Human beings are nothing if not imaginative and we will make earth habitable, for us. I think most other species are ****ed long term, and countless on the brink in the short term.  That's what will keep civilisation going, our ability to steamroller over everything else and really, not give a toss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Halibut   12 #28 Posted June 6, 2019 8 hours ago, tinfoilhat said: There are ways and means. We don't need to go back to horse and cart, but changes have to be made. Failing that, keep going. Human beings are nothing if not imaginative and we will make earth habitable, for us. I think most other species are ****ed long term, and countless on the brink in the short term.  That's what will keep civilisation going, our ability to steamroller over everything else and really, not give a toss. Humans will not be able able to survive without 'most other species'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Cyclone   10 #29 Posted June 6, 2019 10 hours ago, tinfoilhat said: There are ways and means. We don't need to go back to horse and cart, but changes have to be made. Failing that, keep going. Human beings are nothing if not imaginative and we will make earth habitable, for us. I think most other species are ****ed long term, and countless on the brink in the short term.  That's what will keep civilisation going, our ability to steamroller over everything else and really, not give a toss. As Halibut said, without an ecosphere there's no way for any species to survive. It wouldn't take much really, kill of plankton and that's pretty much everything in the oceans dead in a generation, kill of pollinators and plant life collapses, followed by everything that relies on plantlife. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Voice of reason   0 #30 Posted June 6, 2019 11 hours ago, petemcewan said: Voice of Reason Then our industrialised society cannot continue? Those countries taking off into industrial economies must be held in check? Not everybody can have a car, a dishwasher, washing machine etc? Nobody is going to live on the Moon or Mars and nobody is going to live to 1000. It's called using common sense. We can't continue filling the atmosphere with co2, whilst destroying forests that turn it to oxygen for us . We can't pollute the ocean with plastic , chemicals and watch its temperature and acidity rise, killing fish stocks. If anyone thinks we can support a doubling world population, while carrying on like this, they are mistaken.  Have you ever seen a fish tank, filled with more and more fish, and never cleaned out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #31 Posted June 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Halibut said: Humans will not be able able to survive without 'most other species'. I think we'll get the number required down to a really low one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Cyclone   10 #32 Posted June 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said: I think we'll get the number required down to a really low one. I don't think you're really considering how an ecosystem works. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Waldo   96 #33 Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, retep said: Your car that is up to 50%  plastic. Not sure I get the point /  logic of this.  His car contains plastic (not sure it's 50%) so he may as well be reckless and wasteful in all other areas of his life?  I mean, surely every little bit, every effort we make to lead more environmentally friendly lives, is worthwhile? Edited June 6, 2019 by Waldo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Padders   2,840 #34 Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:   Have you ever seen a fish tank, filled with more and more fish, and never cleaned out? The River Thames was once a dead, polluted river.. Look at it now, probably the cleanest river in Europe.. Just proves that mankind can solve problems, when it wants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
petemcewan   27 #35 Posted June 6, 2019 Voice of Reason,  You might find the principles of Deep Ecology attractive. Deep ecologists reckon they have the solutions: sustainability and simple living are just a couple of their ideas. But what puzzles me is how do we stop the likes of China from poisoning the atmosphere?  http://www.politicscymru.com/en/cat6/article22/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
petemcewan   27 #36 Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) Padders,  Just a historical point. The 70s was a period of unbridled pollution. We have come a long way since then. Gone are examples like the Love Canal. Edited June 6, 2019 by petemcewan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...