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Who next for Tory Leader/PM?

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3 hours ago, Mister M said:

Not been a Tory party member I don't have a vote; but I hope those that do take his absence at these events into account. 

For anyone in any doubt about how extreme the Conservative party membership have become, a poll on Channel Four has just revealed that 83% of party members would support Boris Johnson if he immediately cancelled all dealings with the EU and withdrew with no deal.

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43 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Really?

 

All but a handful of Tory MP's will support no Brexit - many more want a properly negotiated deal for Brexit rather than crashing out with no deal.

The only way to get a good properly negotiated deal for Brexit is by being prepared to walk away without a deal.  The walking away option is standard negotiating practice for anyone thrashing out an agreement on any thing.

35 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

For anyone in any doubt about how extreme the Conservative party membership have become, a poll on Channel Four has just revealed that 83% of party members would support Boris Johnson if he immediately cancelled all dealings with the EU and withdrew with no deal.

Have a day off.  There is nothing extreme at all.  You are describing a scenario where the democratic 2016 EU referendum result is fully implemented.

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1 minute ago, Lockdoctor said:

The only way to get a good properly negotiated deal for Brexit is by being prepared to walk away without a deal.  The walking away option is standard negotiating practice for anyone thrashing out an agreement on any thing.

That doesn't really work when both sides know the dire consequences of walking away

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Just now, Lockdoctor said:

The walking away option is standard negotiating practice for anyone thrashing out an agreement on any thing.

Only in a negotiation between equal parties.

 

Look at it like taking a wrecked car to a car dealer and wanting the dealer to give you top book price for it when it’s not worth anything like that. Telling the dealer that if they don’t offer you the price you want, you will take the car to the scrappies isn’t a good negotiating tactic as yes, the dealer will lose the sale but you will lose your car and end up with nothing.

 

(or as my little sis said, you don’t go into a post office and try to rob it by putting a gun to your own head and threatening to pull the trigger if they don’t give you the money! 😂)

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1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

For anyone in any doubt about how extreme the Conservative party membership have become, a poll on Channel Four has just revealed that 83% of party members would support Boris Johnson if he immediately cancelled all dealings with the EU and withdrew with no deal.

Farage has boasted that 40,000 of the Tory members are basically entry-ists signed up in the last 6 months specifically to influence voting.

 

I don’t feel unhappy about that.

 

Anything that destroys the Tories suits me.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, andyofborg said:

That doesn't really work when both sides know the dire consequences of walking away

And still less when there isn't parity between the parties, as noted by Top Cats Hat.

 

That's the fundamental point of failure of unicorny Brexit, before the referendum, sincecArticle 50 was triggered, and now still in the Conservative leadership race.

 

But you can't reason with extremists, and we are now long past the tipping psych point wherein anything objective and factual you might say simply becomes one more justification fuelling their paranoid delusions.

 

Said it long ago, after the referendum when it was becoming increasingly clear that British society was growing still more polarised over it (than less so, if it had been taken as the social electroshock that it was, and socio-economic policies suitably devised in answer): you need to go through with it and experience its consequences first-hand, to lance the boil before collective awareness and consciences will change enough.

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38 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

 

Have a day off.  There is nothing extreme at all.  You are describing a scenario where the democratic 2016 EU referendum result is fully implemented.

Boris' leave campaign manifesto said;

 

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html

 

The day after nothing changes legally. There is no legal obligation on the British Government to take Britain out of the EU immediately. There will be three stages of creating a new UK-EU deal - informal negotiations, formal negotiations, and implementation including both a new Treaty and domestic legal changes. There is no need to rush. We must take our time and get it right.

Overall, the negotiations will create a new European institutional architecture that enables all countries, whether in or out of the EU or euro, to trade freely and cooperate in a friendly way. In particular, we will negotiate a UK-EU Treaty that enables us 1) to continue cooperating in many areas just as now (e.g. maritime surveillance), 2) to deepen cooperation in some areas (e.g. scientific collaborations and counter-terrorism), and 3) to continue free trade with minimal bureaucracy. The details will have to await a serious negotiation but there are many agreements between the EU and other countries that already solve these problems so we will be able to take a lot ‘off the shelf’.

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38 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Only in a negotiation between equal parties.

 

Look at it like taking a wrecked car to a car dealer and wanting the dealer to give you top book price for it when it’s not worth anything like that. Telling the dealer that if they don’t offer you the price you want, you will take the car to the scrappies isn’t a good negotiating tactic as yes, the dealer will lose the sale but you will lose your car and end up with nothing.

 

(or as my little sis said, you don’t go into a post office and try to rob it by putting a gun to your own head and threatening to pull the trigger if they don’t give you the money! 😂)

What an odd metaphor, do you really see this country as the scrap car, and the eu as the shiny new car dealership? What a low opinion you have of it, and us all.

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20 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Farage has boasted that 40,000 of the Tory members are basically entry-ists signed up in the last 6 months specifically to influence voting.

 

I don’t feel unhappy about that.

 

Anything that destroys the Tories suits me.

 

 

That's interesting to hear....Just before Jeremy Corbyn was elected loads of Tories paid £3 for the membership )or whatever it was) and voted for JC.

Karma.

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1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said:

The only way to get a good properly negotiated deal for Brexit is by being prepared to walk away without a deal.  The walking away option is standard negotiating practice for anyone thrashing out an agreement on any thing.

Have a day off.  There is nothing extreme at all.  You are describing a scenario where the democratic 2016 EU referendum result is fully implemented.

Tell me again about how the bbc is bias against the tories.

 

Boris Johnson defends Brexit plan and 'row' silence https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48751527

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29 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Anything that destroys the Tories suits me.

 

 

Then what? get the good old tax and spend Labour party? Maybe the Bull**** party with no manifesto. The working class of this country have never had it so good (on a tax point of view) take your pick, maybe Lib Dems at a push?

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22 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

What an odd metaphor, do you really see this country as the scrap car, and the eu as the shiny new car dealership? What a low opinion you have of it, and us all.

Have you seen Boris Johnson's car?

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crumbs-and-coffee-cups-inside-boris-johnsons-filthy-car-bxj7v00zw

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