Who next for Tory Leader/PM?

[Litotes 63]

1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said:

Both the Labour Party and the Tory Party stood in the 2017 General Elections with manifestos promising to implement the democratic 2016 EU referendum result. The Labour Party and Tory Party attracted 80% share of the 2017 General Election vote between them.   The only way to solve the issue is for the democratic 2016 EU referendum result to be implemented.  Extending the UKs departure date beyond 31st October only worsens the situation and makes more of a mockery for democracy in our country and makes our country look more foolish around the World.

Obviously there is not an underlying wish for Brexit and the polls now show this. So perhaps we should give the democratic vote to the electorate for the referendum and then get back to running the country properly rather than wasting time and money on brexit.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

25 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

The recent European Election results prove the desire for our country to leave the EU hasn't lessened.  

Why do you keep repeating that?

 

The €uro elections showed that Remain votes won a 6-10% lead over Leave votes depending on how you calculated it. Counting only those who voted, Leave got 4% more than remain in 2016 so there has been a swing from Leave to Remain of somewhere between 10-16% in 2019. Recent polling puts Remain at 55% and leave at 45%, a 14% swing to remain.

 

How on earth can you say that the €uro Election results prove the desire to leave hasn’t lessened? It shows the complete opposite. You really are living in your own little Brexit world. 🙄

[Albert the Cat 0]

4 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Why do you keep repeating that?

 

The €uro elections showed that Remain votes won a 6-10% lead over Leave votes depending on how you calculated it. Counting only those who voted, Leave got 4% more than remain in 2016 so there has been a swing from Leave to Remain of somewhere between 10-16% in 2019. Recent polling puts Remain at 55% and leave at 45%, a 14% swing to remain.

 

How on earth can you say that the €uro Election results prove the desire to leave hasn’t lessened? It shows the complete opposite. You really are living in your own little Brexit world. 🙄

The magical thing this is, the longer this drags on, the more and more likely remain will win a general election or referendum. 

 

I don’t think it has dragged on as long as it has by coincidence. Well played remain MPs, well played. 

[Lockdoctor 10]

12 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Why do you keep repeating that?

 

The €uro elections showed that Remain votes won a 6-10% lead over Leave votes depending on how you calculated it. Counting only those who voted, Leave got 4% more than remain in 2016 so there has been a swing from Leave to Remain of somewhere between 10-16% in 2019. Recent polling puts Remain at 55% and leave at 45%, a 14% swing to remain.

 

How on earth can you say that the €uro Election results prove the desire to leave hasn’t lessened? It shows the complete opposite. You really are living in your own little Brexit world. 🙄

Because the Brexit Party did better this year than UKIP did in 2014 which influenced David Cameron to hold the EU democratic referendum.  The good performance by the Brexit Party in this year's European Elections influenced both the Tory MPs and the Tory membership to choose  Boris Johnson by a big margin to be their new leader as a consequence of running a leadership campaign pledging to take our country out of the EU on 31st October with or without a deal.  

 

Unlike you,  I live in the real World, respect democracy and don't need to  cherry pick or make up statistics to prove my argument that the desire for our country to leave the EU hasn't lessened since the 2016 democratic EU referendum result. 

[Top Cats Hat 10]

5 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Because the Brexit Party did better this year than UKIP did in 2014

So what?

 

That is completely irrelevant and is only something trotted out by Brexiteers to divert from the uncomfortable truth that the 2019 €uro elections showed that support for Leave has dropped by at least 10% since the referendum in 2016.  

[Albert the Cat 0]

11 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Because the Brexit Party did better this year than UKIP did in 2014 which influenced David Cameron to hold the EU democratic referendum.  The good performance by the Brexit Party in this year's European Elections influenced both the Tory MPs and the Tory membership to choose  Boris Johnson by a big margin to be their new leader as a consequence of running a leadership campaign pledging to take our country out of the EU on 31st October with or without a deal.  

 

Unlike you,  I live in the real World, respect democracy and don't need to  cherry pick or make up statistics to prove my argument that the desire for our country to leave the EU hasn't lessened since the 2016 democratic EU referendum result. 

You can’t make up statistics. You can’t make up mathematics. The anti intellectual establishment in this country is a disgrace and shameful. 

 

You can have different ways of interpreting data, but you never make numbers up. Unless you believe the wild Leave claims that is. 

 

[Top Cats Hat 10]

9 minutes ago, Albert the Cat said:

You can have different ways of interpreting data, but you never make numbers up. Unless you believe the wild Leave claims that is. 

Maybe Lockdoctor could revisit the €uro election thread and look at some of the ‘math’ in the post election analysis.

 

I always say that the lead of Remain over Leave was somewhere between 6-10% because having assumed that virtually 100% Brexit Party voters support Leave, and virtually 100% of Lib Dem, SNP and Green voters support Remain, the only significant allocation of votes were those cast for Labour and Conservative €uro candidates, hence the 4% range of possible outcomes.

 

Brexiteers’ claim of Leave outpolling Remain in May is based on their claim that all Labour and Conservative votes should be counted as Leave votes because Labour and the Tories both had leaving the EU in their 2017 election manifestos.

 

This is clearly nonsense.

 

 

[Lockdoctor 10]

17 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

So what?

 

That is completely irrelevant and is only something trotted out by Brexiteers to divert from the uncomfortable truth that the 2019 €uro elections showed that support for Leave has dropped by at least 10% since the referendum in 2016.  

Of course  an election result that influenced the Tory leadership race and the choice of our new Prime Minister isn't irrelevant.  It's absolute nonsense to claim  the European Election result shows the support for leave has dropped by 10% since the referendum in 2016 when the Brexit Party won that election convincingly and bettered the  the performance of UKIP in 2014.  I am not a Brexiteer, but support leaving the EU because I respect democracy and analyse statistics with an open unbiased mind.  Voters had only one reason to vote for the Brexit Party.  Actual votes on ballot papers trump any polls conducted.

[Longcol 604]

1 minute ago, Lockdoctor said:

Of course  an election result that influenced the Tory leadership race and the choice of our new Prime Minister isn't irrelevant.  It's absolute nonsense to claim  the European Election result shows the support for leave has dropped by 10% since the referendum in 2016 when the Brexit Party won that election convincingly and bettered the  the performance of UKIP in 2014.  I am not a Brexiteer, but support leaving the EU because I respect democracy and analyse statistics with an open unbiased mind.  Voters had only one reason to vote for the Brexit Party.  Actual votes on ballot papers trump any polls conducted.

Why does nobody believe that statement?

 

 

[Top Cats Hat 10]

7 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Of course  an election result that influenced the Tory leadership race and the choice of our new Prime Minister isn't irrelevant.  

It is totally irrelevant to your claim that the €uro elections showed that support for leaving the EU had not lessened. The only thing that is relevant is a comparison of actual results of all parties in both elections.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Top Cats Hat

[Top Cats Hat 10]

5 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Why does nobody believe that statement?

They would if he stuck to a simple ‘I disagree with Brexit but respect the result’ line.

 

Unfortunately his repeated ludicrous claims that Brexit will be good for the UK, repeated rubbishing of all real and measured consequences of Brexit, and constant attacks on anyone who dares to say that leaving the EU will be a very bad thing for everyone concerned gie the game away.

 

Now of course he could genuinely believe these things but then he would probably be the only person in the whole of England who voted Remain then decided that Brexit was a good thing after all. 😂

[Lockdoctor 10]

4 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

It is totally irrelevant to your claim that the €uro elections showed that support for leaving the EU had not lessened. The only thing that is relevant is a comparison of actual results of all parties in both elections.

The Brexit Party didn't exist in 2014, but they effectively replaced  UKIP this year which is the reason for comparing their results.  The Lib Dems did much better this year than they did in 2014 but they didn't beat the Brexit Party which they needed to do, to give your argument any credibility.