Who next for Tory Leader/PM?

[Pettytom 1]

1 minute ago, taxman said:

A former deputy attorney general has said "Freedom of political debate forms the bedrock of any democratic system. Clearly, if politicians were exposed to prosecution for the statements that they make in campaigns, that would have a chilling effect on our politics and undermine democracy."

 

It may well have a chilling effect on democracy...it might force politicians to tell the truth.

It would be even more chilling if he were to get away with this now.

 

A legally enshrined right to lie and mislead is a dreadful thing to contemplate.

[tinfoilhat 11]

19 minutes ago, Yeah but said:

If its not 350 million then how much is it? has this court given a figure?

We have a £70 odd million rebate right off the bat for starters.

[El Cid 214]

17 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

We have a £70 odd million rebate right off the bat for starters.

Perhaps it said that in small print on the back of the bus?

[Top Cats Hat 10]

4 minutes ago, Yeah but said:

If its not 350 million then how much is it? has this court given a figure?

The figure is not the issue. What the case will turn on is whether he was acting as a public figure or as a private citizen when he misled the public. That is what a jury will have to decide.

 

Johnson won't be defending the figure in court, he will be arguing that he was not acting as Mayor of London or an MP when he made the claims but simply as a leave supporting citizen. The problem his defence team will have is that most of the speeches he made were as Mayor of London or the MP for Uxbridge or South Ruislip. If a public figure speaks in an official capacity they usually preface what they say with something along the lines of 'of course this is my own opinion'. As far as I know Johnson didn't do this as he was expressly using his public position to mislead the public, which of course is what he is being tried for.

 

[L00b 441]

56 minutes ago, Yeah but said:

If its not 350 million then how much is it? has this court given a figure?

It's been done to death, on here and everywhere else.

 

It's around half that figure, after rebate, EU investments, EU grants and all other EU 'budget returns' to the UK. That was well-known before the referendum, to anyone with a shred of curiosity and objectivity about facts.

 

Preparations for Brexit to date (all public budgets/expenses, excluding private sector's spend on own preparations) have already cost more (than that actual half).

 

If you add that private sector's spend on own preparations, the loss of FDI and already-Brexoded business activity, you might even exceed that £350m by now (as in: it's already costing more than the big red bus said you were going to save, which was exaggerated by a factor of 2).

 

EDIT: just had a quick look online out of curiosity, and many recent reports (2019) peg the cost of Brexit since the referendum, at between £66bn and £84bn, i.e. between £425m and £540m per week. So there you have it.

Edited May 29, 2019 by L00b

[Top Cats Hat 10]

55 minutes ago, nightrider said:

Yes, but he has a defence in that he did not make the statement as part of his public role apparently. i.e. he was not employed n public office to campaign for the leaver campaign. A prominent legal expert has explained this better in a blog

Yes, I read that too but it was only an opinion by a barrister with a blog not a prominent legal expert. I've also read legal opinion which says that the problem he has is as a former Mayor rather than an MP, because a person holding a figurehead office like mayor always represents the city in public engagements ie. is never off duty in public.

 

As I said, a jury will have to decide.

[Penistone999 10]

Who is this Marcus Ball muppet ? 

 

And who are his " backers " ? 

2 hours ago, L00b said:

It's been done to death, on here and everywhere else.

 

It's around half that figure, after rebate, EU investments, EU grants and all other EU 'budget returns' to the UK. That was well-known before the referendum, to anyone with a shred of curiosity and objectivity about facts.

 

Preparations for Brexit to date (all public budgets/expenses, excluding private sector's spend on own preparations) have already cost more (than that actual half).

 

If you add that private sector's spend on own preparations, the loss of FDI and already-Brexoded business activity, you might even exceed that £350m by now (as in: it's already costing more than the big red bus said you were going to save, which was exaggerated by a factor of 2).

 

EDIT: just had a quick look online out of curiosity, and many recent reports (2019) peg the cost of Brexit since the referendum, at between £66bn and £84bn, i.e. between £425m and £540m per week. So there you have it.

A price worth paying to get away from those muppets in Brussels. 

[Top Cats Hat 10]

21 minutes ago, Penistone999 said:

 And who are his " backers " ? 

Lots of people on the internet who believe that politicians shouldn’t lie to the public and crowd funded the prosecution. 😁

 

 

[tinfoilhat 11]

25 minutes ago, Penistone999 said:

Who is this Marcus Ball muppet ? 

 

And who are his " backers " ? 

A price worth paying to get away from those muppets in Brussels. 

Why??? Can't be because if the laws they make because you break them anyway.

[Halibut 12]

25 minutes ago, Penistone999 said:

Who is this Marcus Ball muppet ? 

 

And who are his " backers " ? 

A price worth paying to get away from those muppets in Brussels. 

Do you think politicians should be able to tell massive lies without consequence?

[Penistone999 10]

8 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Lots of people on the internet who believe that politicians shouldn’t lie to the public and crowd funded the prosecution. 😁

 

 

I expect over 650 prosecutions for politicians lying then. 

6 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Do you think politicians should be able to tell massive lies without consequence?

They ALL lie , its part of the job description  Are they all going to be prosecuted ? 

[Halibut 12]

3 minutes ago, Penistone999 said:

I expect over 650 prosecutions for politicians lying then. 

They ALL lie , its part of the job description  Are they all going to be prosecuted ? 

No. Not all of them do. 

No, it isn't part of the job description. Racist Boris's lie was a big one, with far reaching consequences and he knowingly repeated it when he knew it was a lie.

 

Let me guess, you'd congratulate him and offer to shine his shoes?