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living in poverty

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8 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

Well you seem to be concerned about them gaming the system and taking without ever contributing.  But surely you need to know the scale of the problem if it's something that bothers you.

That's not my concern. That's your projection.

The discussion is about poverty. One poster mentioned benefit sanctions as a contributor to that. Nobody mentioned sponging etc.

This is a common theme on here. Any discussion that doesn't 100% fit some posters opinion is rebuked with insinuations like this. A more level headed, straightforward discussion is much more interesting, adult, and useful 

 

Edited by Voice of reason

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So sanctions are a major contributor to poverty, but you're in support of them?  And not to avoid people sponging?

 

There's no rebuke, why so defensive?  This is a discussion isn't it.

 

And to try to call a few polite questions bigotry, well, bit of a snowflake are we?

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4 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

So sanctions are a major contributor to poverty, but you're in support of them?  And not to avoid people sponging?

 

There's no rebuke, why so defensive?  This is a discussion isn't it.

 

And to try to call a few polite questions bigotry, well, bit of a snowflake are we?

I'd suggest you read my posts in the thread, with an open mind, before jumping to conclusions.

Having a discussion is so much more educated than starting an argument.

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12 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

I'd suggest you read my posts in the thread, with an open mind, before jumping to conclusions.

Having a discussion is so much more educated than starting an argument.

Hmmm... :huh:


... no it isn't! ;)

(to quote Monty Python)

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19 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

I'd suggest you read my posts in the thread, with an open mind, before jumping to conclusions.

Having a discussion is so much more educated than starting an argument.

I'm just trying to clarify what you meant by asking a few questions, you seem to have become very defensive about it though.

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On 25/05/2019 at 00:28, Voice of reason said:

Not really. You are telling us from your experience about people in poverty, in very vague emotive terms.

It would be much more useful and convincing to quantify specifically how and why it happens.

I don't deny it exists. I want to understand how and why. Somebody mentioned earlier about uc and its role in poverty. Explaining details would help your cause.

I did reference the many disabled and vulnerable people who died quickly after they were deemed fit for work under the Work Capability Assessment process. David Clapson and Stephanie Bottrill are just 2 names from the top of my head who tragically died after the process. There are many, many more like them - people with learning difficulties, mental and physical health problems. The process has been going on for years, that it is not more widely publicised is interesting, though not surprising.

At a time when people's savings are very low, and 'jobs for life' becoming a thing of the past, I think people should take more notice of what's happening.

If you want facts and figures the CPAG (Child Poverty Action Group) is good resource as a starter.

 

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32 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

I'm just trying to clarify what you meant by asking a few questions, you seem to have become very defensive about it though.

The reason for the defensiveness was you appeared to be building a strawman that I was somehow against benefit claimants and that I cast them all in the same light.

I'm not, and it seems so typical to have to reiterate things like that when making any critique of anything.

Do I think sanctions are needed against false claimants? Yes.

Does that mean I think all claimants are on the take? No.

Posting on here reminds me of Gordon Brown bigoted woman clip. An ethos that has stuck with 'the left' and left millions of people who need it in the wilderness.

Maybe keeping an open mind would help the situation. Some people and families need double the help they get. Other people need a kick up the backside and back to work.

Watching stories of kids acting as carers for sick and disabled relatives is heart breaking, for example. I want people who need help to get it, and people who are able to work and pay tax to do so.

If that is in some way unacceptable to you, we'll have to agree to disagree.

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32 minutes ago, Mister M said:

I did reference the many disabled and vulnerable people who died quickly after they were deemed fit for work under the Work Capability Assessment process. David Clapson and Stephanie Bottrill are just 2 names from the top of my head who tragically died after the process. There are many, many more like them - people with learning difficulties, mental and physical health problems. The process has been going on for years, that it is not more widely publicised is interesting, though not surprising.

At a time when people's savings are very low, and 'jobs for life' becoming a thing of the past, I think people should take more notice of what's happening.

If you want facts and figures the CPAG (Child Poverty Action Group) is good resource as a starter.

 

Those sound like tragic cases.

I'm trying to understand the x million in poverty, and role uc or other benefits plays in that.

I suppose, I was expecting one of the posters closely linked to it to provide a synopsis of peoples benefit income Vs general ot going to demonstrate the case.

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A question can't build a strawman.  That's obvious.

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So, is anybody actually going to post examples of what people receive Vs what they need to spend? Does the basic payment need to increase? Does it need targeting at different people? What groups are missing out?

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1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:

So, is anybody actually going to post examples of what people receive Vs what they need to spend? Does the basic payment need to increase? Does it need targeting at different people? What groups are missing out?

Here's an example. A non working, non disabled,  cohabiting couple with 2 children would get around £1700 in universal credit and child benefit per month.  Out of that they would have to pay  £480 rent (Sheffield housing allowance for 2 bedroom property) and around £100 council tax.   That leaves £1100 per month plus entitlement to free school meals, free prescriptions etc.  

 

There are sites where you input family details and it calculates entitlements. 

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12 minutes ago, Ms Macbeth said:

Here's an example. A non working, non disabled,  cohabiting couple with 2 children would get around £1700 in universal credit and child benefit per month.  Out of that they would have to pay  £480 rent (Sheffield housing allowance for 2 bedroom property) and around £100 council tax.   That leaves £1100 per month plus entitlement to free school meals, free prescriptions etc.  

 

There are sites where you input family details and it calculates entitlements. 

Quids in then.

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