living in poverty

[Halibut 12]

1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:

But is increasing benefits the actual solution?

Spoken like a true Tory.

[petemcewan 27]

V of  R 

 

Getting back into well paid work, preferably yes. But people shouldn't have to live in poverty. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by petemcewan

[I1L2T3 10]

19 hours ago, Voice of reason said:

Energy bills and housing are one part of the equation. I've never said it is a one-part issue, with one solution.

Neither have I said poverty is due to the things you mention.

There is a common theme running through lots of threads. This is an example. Hmm this bloke mentioned people going back to work. Therefore I disagree with all his comments and will assume he hates anybody receiving any benefits.

Life and opinions are more nuanced than that you know.

It is nuanced which is exactly the point I am making

 

The feckless poor arguments are nonsense, as are the lazy arguments based around national levels of employment.

[I1L2T3 10]

1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:

But is increasing benefits the actual solution? Get more people working in better paid jobs surely is what should be being done.

Plus the jrf seems to think half the country is in poverty, constant links to them isn't helping anyone's cause imo.

You know that solutions can be tactical, and they can be strategic. You can’t stop tactical solutions without a long-term strategy in place so if you want to change the profile of benefit distribution you can’t do it overnight. 

 

So tactically increasing benefits has to be part of the approach, in line with general living costs

 

The other bit, a plentiful stream of well paid jobs, isn’t going to happen with the Tories. They have no strategy for that positive change. Their strategy is the opposite.

 

 

 

 

[Robin-H 11]

25 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

You know that solutions can be tactical, and they can be strategic. You can’t stop tactical solutions without a long-term strategy in place so if you want to change the profile of benefit distribution you can’t do it overnight. 

 

So tactically increasing benefits has to be part of the approach, in line with general living costs

 

The other bit, a plentiful stream of well paid jobs, isn’t going to happen with the Tories. They have no strategy for that positive change. Their strategy is the opposite.

 

 

 

 

Hmm..

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48446811

 

"The proportion of low-paid workers in Britain has fallen to its lowest level since 1980, a think tank has said, with young adults particularly benefitting. The number of low-paid workers dropped by 200,000 last year, with 120,000 of them aged between 21 and 30, the Resolution Foundation said. It said the introduction of the National Living Wage had "significantly" reduced low pay."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47622415

 

"The number of employed people in the UK has risen again, to a new record number of 32.7 million people between November and January.  The 76.1% employment rate is the highest since records began in 1971." 

 

 

 

[I1L2T3 10]

1 hour ago, Robin-H said:

Hmm..

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48446811

 

"The proportion of low-paid workers in Britain has fallen to its lowest level since 1980, a think tank has said, with young adults particularly benefitting. The number of low-paid workers dropped by 200,000 last year, with 120,000 of them aged between 21 and 30, the Resolution Foundation said. It said the introduction of the National Living Wage had "significantly" reduced low pay."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47622415

 

"The number of employed people in the UK has risen again, to a new record number of 32.7 million people between November and January.  The 76.1% employment rate is the highest since records began in 1971." 

 

 

 

What has that got to do with a stream of well paid jobs?

 

You are comparing two different things. 

 

nice pivot attempt though.

[steved32 55]

Increased poverty is the direct result of a decade of Cameron/Osborne austerity (economic stagnation) policy, which May boasted about continuing over the past three years of her premiership.

 

Crises in our schools, NHS, increased use of food banks and more street sleepers in every town and city... 2019?  Some of this society is remininscent of the Thatcher/Howe years a generation ago.  Or even, Orwell's social commentary in the 1930s.

 

Labour, I fear, have missed the boat of golden opportunity with their dithering over the big issue, opening the door for chancers from other political groups to divide the nation even more...

Edited June 1, 2019 by steved32
Typos.

[Voice of reason 0]

4 hours ago, Halibut said:

Spoken like a true Tory.

Epic fail.

So is the solution to put all the benefits up then? Will that solve the situation?

Maybe try  something a bit more productive and imaginative than just pumping money into the wrong places.

[Voice of reason 0]

4 hours ago, I1L2T3 said:

You know that solutions can be tactical, and they can be strategic. You can’t stop tactical solutions without a long-term strategy in place so if you want to change the profile of benefit distribution you can’t do it overnight. 

 

So tactically increasing benefits has to be part of the approach, in line with general living costs

 

The other bit, a plentiful stream of well paid jobs, isn’t going to happen with the Tories. They have no strategy for that positive change. Their strategy is the opposite.

 

 

 

 

Strategic targeting makes more sense.

Don't get the tory comment. Maybe not, but bit of a pointless comment , unless part of an election campaign. I don't care about party politics, I'm having a discussion with other individuals.

There are certainly jobs about though. We know they range from minimum wage and upwards. It well publicised in here our reliance on immigration for nurses and doctors. They are well paid jobs.

Target help to those in most dire need, and help them and others to get back on and up the ladder.

[Robin-H 11]

2 hours ago, I1L2T3 said:

What has that got to do with a stream of well paid jobs?

 

You are comparing two different things. 

 

nice pivot attempt though.

Not really. The links provided shows that whatever the Tory strategy is it is creating a combination of a record number of people in work, and a nearly 40 year low in the number of people in low paid work.

 

Yes, something being not 'low pay' doesn't necessarily mean it is 'well paid' but it is what matters when the subject is poverty and work. 

[Voice of reason 0]

5 hours ago, Halibut said:

Spoken like a true Tory.

This one simple sentence encapsulates the reason we have a Tory government.

 

I've never voted tory in my life and in the past mostly voted Labour. But not now.

Like so many of my peers we can see the sham the Labour party has become. No longer representing working class people. Hijacked by a bunch of superior know it alls.

Personally now, I'm not in desperate need of an alternative to the tories. I'll get by.

But all those who desperately need it have had the rug pulled from underneath them by a new class of Labour.

I'd love to vote for a party who can help those people who need help, whilst not shafting everyone else in the process, but that party does not exist.

 

[I1L2T3 10]

36 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

Not really. The links provided shows that whatever the Tory strategy is it is creating a combination of a record number of people in work, and a nearly 40 year low in the number of people in low paid work.

 

Yes, something being not 'low pay' doesn't necessarily mean it is 'well paid' but it is what matters when the subject is poverty and work. 

Yes it is too different things. One is the stream of enough well paid jobs. The other is lifting the base pay for the poorest. They aren’t the same thing. We all know as well that we have the explosion of zero hours contracts and other less secure forms of work. Couple that with very high living costs and the picture is not so rosy.

 

Finally, a couple of things to think about. If everything is so great then why the powerful protest votes at elections? And if we are making progress then why are Tories lining up to cut our workers’ protections and conditions?