living in poverty

[Cyclone 10]

12 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

How many job vacancies are there in the UK right now?

How many unrelated questions can you ask in order to avoid changing your opinion.

6 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

It's not so hard to fathom.  Try imagining that some combination of the following applies to you:

 

-- You've spent the last 15 years bringing up a family, and not in paid employment.

-- You don't have any particular qualifications.

-- You're one of the 16% of UK adults who are "functionally illiterate".

-- You're in a group that tends to be discriminated against.

-- You're not physically strong enough to do manual work.

-- You don't have a car, or can't drive.

-- You've been wiped out financially by a divorce settlement.

-- You have a criminal record.

-- You have a drugs problem.

-- You're already long term unemployed.

-- You are homeless.

-- You don't have any family around to help you.

-- You're aged over 50.

-- You don't have any savings to fall back on.

 

The list could be extended almost indefinitely.  It doesn't take much imagination to think yourself into a situation where you'd find it very difficult to find a job.

Don't forget that you can be in work and still in effective poverty.  Perhaps a zero hours contract is what's available, you take it, you work, benefits are cut, and next week there are only 0 hours available for you.  Your benefits take months to reinstate.  What do you do in the meantime, you go hungry.

[Voice of reason 0]

8 hours ago, Cyclone said:

How many unrelated questions can you ask in order to avoid changing your opinion.

Don't forget that you can be in work and still in effective poverty.  Perhaps a zero hours contract is what's available, you take it, you work, benefits are cut, and next week there are only 0 hours available for you.  Your benefits take months to reinstate.  What do you do in the meantime, you go hungry.

A different situation to not being able to find work at all  . But what you describe there is a very bad situation that needs addtessing.

Zhc have been badly abused by lots employers. There are some cases where they make sense, for example very seasonal or fluctuating work. In those cases the job might not exist at all if a fixed hours contract was mandatory.

A solution that solves both, in a pragmatic way is needed asap.

[Voice of reason 0]

14 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

It's not so hard to fathom.  Try imagining that some combination of the following applies to you:

 

-- You've spent the last 15 years bringing up a family, and not in paid employment.

-- You don't have any particular qualifications.

-- You're one of the 16% of UK adults who are "functionally illiterate".

-- You're in a group that tends to be discriminated against.

-- You're not physically strong enough to do manual work.

-- You don't have a car, or can't drive.

-- You've been wiped out financially by a divorce settlement.

-- You have a criminal record.

-- You have a drugs problem.

-- You're already long term unemployed.

-- You are homeless.

-- You don't have any family around to help you.

-- You're aged over 50.

-- You don't have any savings to fall back on.

 

The list could be extended almost indefinitely.  It doesn't take much imagination to think yourself into a situation where you'd find it very difficult to find a job.

Some of those could apply to some people. Many of them wouldn't preclude you from finding meaningful paid work. There's only 2 or 3 that would be serious blockers. The others should be worked round so the person doesn't find themselves indefinitely state dependant.

[Cyclone 10]

58 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

A different situation to not being able to find work at all  . But what you describe there is a very bad situation that needs addtessing.

Zhc have been badly abused by lots employers. There are some cases where they make sense, for example very seasonal or fluctuating work. In those cases the job might not exist at all if a fixed hours contract was mandatory.

A solution that solves both, in a pragmatic way is needed asap.

We weren't talking about people who couldn't find work though, we were talking about poverty.

[Voice of reason 0]

31 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

We weren't talking about people who couldn't find work though, we were talking about poverty.

surely the two are intrinsically linked?

[I1L2T3 10]

12 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

surely the two are intrinsically linked?

Why? 

 

Seen how cost of domestic energy bills and housing costs have gone up?

 

Poverty is not always the result of an individual’s lack of drive or ambition.

[Mister M 1,625]

1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:

Some of those could apply to some people. Many of them wouldn't preclude you from finding meaningful paid work. There's only 2 or 3 that would be serious blockers. The others should be worked round so the person doesn't find themselves indefinitely state dependant.

One thing is very clear about poverty is that often its effects multiply and cause multiple problems. So many people in poor areas have the poorest health often due to bad housing and pollution; schools are in the worst areas, therefore their children escaping from poverty becomes more of an uphill battle; services are haphazard and sometimes located in more affluent areas; and there was a documentary about 15 years ago (perhaps??) about 'postcode poverty' - so people who live in what was regarded as a 'challenging' part of town, were often disregarded or unfairly judged by potential employers in favour of someone from a more 'desirable' area. And so on....

 

It is worth pointing out that much of poverty is structural, rather than individual. Especially nowadays. With many people poor who are in work, and social mobility drying up, as well as regional imbalances and skills deficits - all of this points to structural or Government / market failure, rather than the usual  "people can't be bothered to work, too dependent on cushy state benefits" prejudices.

 

You seem quite keen on the subject area. There is a wealth of information about the extent, causes, and consequences of poverty on the internet. The Guardian used to do a 'society' section in their paper (either on a Wednesday or Thursday) which examine these issues, if they still print it, it's definitely worth a read.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Mister M

[Voice of reason 0]

5 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Why? 

 

Seen how cost of domestic energy bills and housing costs have gone up?

 

Poverty is not always the result of an individual’s lack of drive or ambition.

Energy bills and housing are one part of the equation. I've never said it is a one-part issue, with one solution.

Neither have I said poverty is due to the things you mention.

There is a common theme running through lots of threads. This is an example. Hmm this bloke mentioned people going back to work. Therefore I disagree with all his comments and will assume he hates anybody receiving any benefits.

Life and opinions are more nuanced than that you know.

[Voice of reason 0]

4 minutes ago, Mister M said:

One thing is very clear about poverty is that often its effects multiply and cause multiple problems. So many people in poor areas have the poorest health often due to bad housing and pollution; schools are in the worst areas, therefore their children escaping from poverty becomes more of an uphill battle; services are haphazard and sometimes located in more affluent areas; and there was a documentary about 15 years ago (perhaps??) about 'postcode poverty' - so people who live in what was regarded as a 'challenging' part of town, were often disregarded or unfairly judged by potential employers in favour of someone from a more 'desirable' area. And so on....

 

It is worth pointing out that much of poverty is structural, rather than individual. Especially nowadays. With many people poor who are in work, and social mobility drying up, as well as regional imbalances and skills deficits - all of this points to structural or Government / market failure, rather than the usual  "people can't be bothered to work, too dependent on cushy state benefits" prejudices.

 

You seem quite keen on the subject area. There is a wealth of information about the extent, causes, and consequences of poverty on the internet. The Guardian used to do a 'society' section in their paper (either on a Wednesday or Thursday) which examine these issues, if they still print it, it's definitely worth a read.

 

 

I agree with a lot of that. I'm sure some people do have the prejudice you mention. I don't. I know some people will fall into the stereotype you describe and many won't.

As I mentioned to I1L , there doesn't have to be a two position view. There are problems with the benefits system, education etc etc as you say. There are also problems with some people on benefits. Some are desperate to get off them, some aren't. Some people should get 10x the help they do, and some should be getting less or pushed back to work.

 

The postcode trap for kids is a hard one. I know now universities will accept a grade lower for A-level entry for applications from some areas. It is of course much easier for a kid from Totley to get higher grades than a kid from Arbourthorne, for reasons you mention. That is just one small part of the problem / solution. But mobilty, especially fo rthe new generation is really important to get right.

[WiseOwl182 10]

14 hours ago, Cyclone said:

How many unrelated questions can you ask in order to avoid changing your opinion.

It's not unrelated. You're trying to make out that people on long term benefits are in poverty. I disagree with your definition of poverty but in any case, if they want more money than the welfare safety net provides then there are literally hundreds of thousands of job vacancies going.

[petemcewan 27]

Supporting Mr M's points:

 

 

https://www.jrf.org.uk/press/half-million-more-people-poverty-if-government-maintains-benefits-freeze

[Voice of reason 0]

2 hours ago, petemcewan said:

Supporting Mr M's points:

 

 

https://www.jrf.org.uk/press/half-million-more-people-poverty-if-government-maintains-benefits-freeze

But is increasing benefits the actual solution? Get more people working in better paid jobs surely is what should be being done.

Plus the jrf seems to think half the country is in poverty, constant links to them isn't helping anyone's cause imo.