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Freedom of religion - no

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1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:

Correct. She went way too far and 'forced' her views on people.

I don't know the details, but was it gross misconduct and an immediate sacking, or a culmination of unheeded warnings? The latter would seem more appropriate than the first imo

The article linked to in the first post makes it clear it was a result multiple unheeded warnings and even going back on assurances she'd given that she wouldn't repeat the behaviour.

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39 minutes ago, altus said:

The article linked to in the first post makes it clear it was a result multiple unheeded warnings and even going back on assurances she'd given that she wouldn't repeat the behaviour.

Ok, she should have taken note then. In that instance I'd probably agree with the sacking as she was too OTT. In general terms I don't have a problem with someone offering faith based pastoral care to someone who is then happy to receive it. Moderation in all things.

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3 hours ago, Cyclone said:

To be fair, the NHS doesn't stop at lunch, nor does it stop at sunset or sunrise, patients need care 24/7, not just during 'the working day'.

The poster said that he worked in a factory, not a hospital.

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27 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

Ok, she should have taken note then. In that instance I'd probably agree with the sacking as she was too OTT. In general terms I don't have a problem with someone offering faith based pastoral care to someone who is then happy to receive it. Moderation in all things.

I wouldn't want to be stuck in hospital with a succession of different people from differing religions all offering faith based pastoral care - with always the worry that they might not be as caring towards someone who rejects their approaches.

 

If a patient requests it then fair enough - but that's what hospital chaplains, etc. are for. It should be initiated by the patient and it shouldn't be given by the nursing staff.

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2 hours ago, Waldo said:

@Cyclone

 

Resign is maybe a bit OTT. I would think it unreasonable and unfair for smokers to expect time off that other people don't get. If everyone gets the same perks, it's not a problem.

 

Regarding my assumption; yes, I think I am assuming the people who are taking time out to pray are, on average, getting more time off than those not praying. Do we have any evidence (spreadsheet time sheets etc) to indicate otherwise?

 

Just treat all people the same, what's wrong with that? If people want to take time out to  pray, contemplate or fantasise, then why not afford that opportunity to all staff?

They do.

They are called   tea breaks   and   lunch breaks.

People can choose to spend this time however they wish  including using it for prayer. There should be no special time out other than these allocated times.

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9 minutes ago, francypants said:

They do.

They are called   tea breaks   and   lunch breaks.

People can choose to spend this time however they wish  including using it for prayer. There should be no special time out other than these allocated times.

That's all good of course. Just to point out though that my original objection was to 'prayer breaks' and not 'tea breaks where you do what you like, including pray'.

 

To my mind 'prayer breaks' makes it sound like it's something only available to people who are wanting to pray.

 

I have no problem with people being religious, unless they feel that entitles them to special treatment and privileges that non-religious people won't be getting.

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2 hours ago, Waldo said:would think it unreasonable and unfair for smokers to expect time off that other people don't get. 

I would think it unreasonable and unfair for smokers to expect time off that other people don't get

 

Smoking is a different issue.

 

Smokers don't choose to take time off to smoke, they are forced to by the 2007 anti smoking law. It is not illegal to smoke and if someone choses to smoke and has to take time off to do it then they shouldn't be penalised for it.

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24 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Smoking is a different issue.

 

Smokers don't choose to take time off to smoke, they are forced to by the 2007 anti smoking law. It is not illegal to smoke and if someone choses to smoke and has to take time off to do it then they shouldn't be penalised for it.

I didn't realise that, are smokers legally entitled to time off work that non-smokers are not?

 

Lots of things are not illegal, and are also not appropriate or permitted or legal in the work place; does the same logic apply, people who chose to do those things should be allowed time off to do so, and not be penalised? Or is there something special about smoking?

Edited by Waldo

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11 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Or is these something special about smoking?

Yes there is.

 

Until July 2007 workers were allowed to smoke in most workplaces. The Act of Parliament in 2006 did not ban smoking at work, it banned smoking in certain enclosed spaces.  If you have to leave your workplace to comply with the law then you shouldn't be penalised when a worker who works outdoor is not.

 

(I'm not a smoker by the way.)

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40 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Smoking is a different issue.

 

Smokers don't choose to take time off to smoke, they are forced to by the 2007 anti smoking law. It is not illegal to smoke and if someone choses to smoke and has to take time off to do it then they shouldn't be penalised for it.

Yes they do, and / or may be allowed to They can work the same hours as their non-smoking colleagues, then go to a designated area at break time.

 

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16 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Yes there is.

 

Until July 2007 workers were allowed to smoke in most workplaces. The Act of Parliament in 2006 did not ban smoking at work, it banned smoking in certain enclosed spaces.  If you have to leave your workplace to comply with the law then you shouldn't be penalised when a worker who works outdoor is not.

 

(I'm not a smoker by the way.)

They don't have to leave the workplace to comply with the law though, they could simply not smoke at work; no need to leave the workplace, and no law broken.

 

It's presumably not a legal requirement, for emloyers to allow smoking breaks? Is that correct? I'm guessing it's just something employers allow, to help with staff moral etc, which they're perfectly entitled to do of course. Not sure it would do much for the moral of non-smoking employees though.

 

4 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

They can work the same hours as their non-smoking colleagues, then go to a designated area at break time.

 

That sounds more reasonable and fair. Everyone gets the same lunch and break times, it's the employees time, they can do what they like in it (smoke, pray, sleep, meditate, yoga, whatever).

Edited by Waldo

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53 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Smoking is a different issue.

 

Smokers don't choose to take time off to smoke, they are forced to by the 2007 anti smoking law. It is not illegal to smoke and if someone choses to smoke and has to take time off to do it then they shouldn't be penalised for it.

Of course they choose if they take time off to smoke. It's been 12 years since the law was introduced, that's more than enough time to adjust to only smoking on break times.

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