British steel facing administration

[ez8004 10]

8 minutes ago, apelike said:

Just dont buy anything that is made of Spanish stainless as it is poor quality which will stain with rust-marks. My sink is one, it is manufactured in the UK but made from steel imported from Spain.

There are so many things wrong with your statement.

 

Firstly, it is not Spanish steel that is at fault.  It is the UK manufacturer that decided to source low quality stainless steel.  There are many different grades of stainless steel, ones such as 316L are decent with high levels of nickel, chromium and molybdenum.

 

It is a simple matter of you get what you pay.  You were cheap and deserved what you got.  It really is that simple.  So don't needlessly turn it into an obvious rant about anything foreign, it makes you look pathetic.

[apelike 10]

1 minute ago, ez8004 said:

It is a simple matter of you get what you pay.  You were cheap and deserved what you got.  It really is that simple.  So don't needlessly turn it into an obvious rant about anything foreign, it makes you look pathetic.

As I didn't pay for it was probably a bargain, and BTW the rant was about poor quality Spanish steel.

[ez8004 10]

2 minutes ago, apelike said:

As I didn't pay for it was probably a bargain, and BTW the rant was about poor quality Spanish steel.

You still don't get it.  There was nothing wrong with the steel,  If the UK manufacturer wasn't prepared to pay for higher grade stainless, then why would they get it?  You make anything to a given price point.  Metallurgy is driven by chemistry, not geographical borders.

[apelike 10]

9 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

You still don't get it.  There was nothing wrong with the steel,  If the UK manufacturer wasn't prepared to pay for higher grade stainless, then why would they get it?  You make anything to a given price point.  Metallurgy is driven by chemistry, not geographical borders.

So the steel was made in Spain, had nothing wrong with it and yet was poor quality and the UK manufacturer was at fault. Is stainless steel meant to rust as I though that is what stainless actually meant?

[ez8004 10]

Just now, apelike said:

So the steel was made in Spain, had nothing wrong with it and yet was poor quality and the UK manufacturer was at fault. Is stainless steel meant to rust as I though that is what stainless actually meant?

Nope, stainless steel can actually rust.  In fact, since you're not sufficiently educated to know, here is a free lesson.  It is primarily chromium that makes steel stainless.  You’re looking at something like 12% for it to impart its “stainless” properties.  This minimum amount is required for a stable Cr oxide layer to form, it is this layer that prevents rusting.  However, if stagnant water is present, then this oxide layer can break down over time and allows rust to form.

 

Now, if you have higher levels of Cr, then your stainless properties will obviously improve with a thicker or more stable layer of Cr oxide being formed.  Other alloys added to the steel can also improve corrosion resistance, such as molybdenum.  A high Mo content can improve pitting corrosion resistance.

 

A high nickel content can produce a group of stainless known as austenitic stainless steels.  Probably the most common one being Type 304 which can be found in decent cutlery.  You may have noticed some numbers found on your knives and fork, such as 18/8, which in this example means that the stainless it was made from contains 18% Cr and 8% Ni.  Some cheap stuff might have 13/0, which is 13% Cr and 0% Ni.

 

As I say, if the manufacturer isn’t willing to pay for a decent stainless grade of stainless, then they simply will not get it.  Any steelmaker who makes stainless steels can make the vast majority of grades available, but you must be willing to pay for it.

 

Here endeth the lesson.

[El Cid 212]

1 hour ago, apelike said:

Just dont buy anything that is made of Spanish stainless as it is poor quality which will stain with rust-marks. My sink is one, it is manufactured in the UK but made from steel imported from Spain.

I am impressed that you know who manufactured the steel that you sink is made from. Do you sell or deal with sinks in your job?

[ez8004 10]

28 minutes ago, El Cid said:

I am impressed that you know who manufactured the steel that you sink is made from. Do you sell or deal with sinks in your job?

Hope he doesn't if he doesn't even know that different grades of stainless steel exist.

[Ontarian1981 10]

1 hour ago, ez8004 said:

You still don't get it.  There was nothing wrong with the steel,  If the UK manufacturer wasn't prepared to pay for higher grade stainless, then why would they get it?  You make anything to a given price point.  Metallurgy is driven by chemistry, not geographical borders.

 Slightly off topic, as you two are talking stainless, but I do recall in the late50s that certain Vauxhalls i.eCresta and Victor were rust buckets and General Motors were in hot water  for using inferior Spanish steel. I was too young to know the details, but remember adults saying there was a big stink over it.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Ontarian1981

[Ontarian1981 10]

1 hour ago, ez8004 said:

Nope, stainless steel can actually rust.  In fact, since you're not sufficiently educated to know, here is a free lesson.  It is primarily chromium that makes steel stainless.  You’re looking at something like 12% for it to impart its “stainless” properties.  This minimum amount is required for a stable Cr oxide layer to form, it is this layer that prevents rusting.  However, if stagnant water is present, then this oxide layer can break down over time and allows rust to form.

 

Now, if you have higher levels of Cr, then your stainless properties will obviously improve with a thicker or more stable layer of Cr oxide being formed.  Other alloys added to the steel can also improve corrosion resistance, such as molybdenum.  A high Mo content can improve pitting corrosion resistance.

 

A high nickel content can produce a group of stainless known as austenitic stainless steels.  Probably the most common one being Type 304 which can be found in decent cutlery.  You may have noticed some numbers found on your knives and fork, such as 18/8, which in this example means that the stainless it was made from contains 18% Cr and 8% Ni.  Some cheap stuff might have 13/0, which is 13% Cr and 0% Ni.

 

As I say, if the manufacturer isn’t willing to pay for a decent stainless grade of stainless, then they simply will not get it.  Any steelmaker who makes stainless steels can make the vast majority of grades available, but you must be willing to pay for it.

 

Here endeth the lesson.

 Some American nuclear power stations paid a heavy price for going all in on the stainless they used in the steam generators. The company I worked for at the time was Babcock and Wilcox Canada and we got the contracts to replace18 of those monsters, encompassing 3 power producing companies, using a high-grade Inconel on the primary heads of the generators where the heavy water was forced in , and the tube sheets at both end, plus the 1000s of tubes than spanned the units. Westinghouse manufactured the originals , bless them, they really helped the Canadian economy in the mid-nineties. lol

[ez8004 10]

18 minutes ago, Ontarian1981 said:

 Slightly off topic, as you two are talking stainless, but I do recall in the late50s that certain Vauxhalls i.eCresta and Victor were rust buckets and General Motors were in hot water  for using inferior Spanish steel. I was too young to know the details, but remember adults saying there was a big stink over it.

That's a very lazy explanation.  Like I have said, if you are prepared to pay, you can source very good quality steels.  Our steelmaking capability is very weak compared to other countries, such as the Chinese who have invested heavily in very modern equipment and infrastructure over recent years.

Edited May 22, 2019 by ez8004

[ANGELFIRE1 10]

9 hours ago, ez8004 said:

That's a very lazy explanation.  Like I have said, if you are prepared to pay, you can source very good quality steels.  Our steelmaking capability is very weak compared to other countries, such as the Chinese who have invested heavily in very modern equipment and infrastructure over recent years.

I can remember when Sheffield Steel was regarded very highly indeed. How times change.

 

Angel1.

[melthebell 862]

49 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

I can remember when Sheffield Steel was regarded very highly indeed. How times change.

 

Angel1.

we arent living in the 1950s any more though the world has moved on...we havent