Antisemitism

[Tony 10]

Halibut owned it. If only other people would be so considerate (and by the look of it appreciative of the learning experience) when they inadvertently become anti-Semitic. 

 

Without making any specific accusations it's very telling that so many replies rush to denounce the Israeli government, but so far not a mention of Hamas, the Egyptian or Lebanese governments, just a stout defence of last weekend's anti-Semitic marchers linked in the OP.

 

That is anti-Semitism at work, whether or not it is conscious. I thought it would be harder to tease out here but it just came right out.

[Lex Luthor 10]

Ahhh.  Thanks for the heads up, Tony.  I criticised the Saudi Arabia government the other day, therefore I must be an Islamaphobe. 

 

Oh damn it!  Just about every other comment I make is in criticism of our politicians in the UK.  I must be racist towards all UK people everywhere too. 

[JamesR123 0]

Disproportionate criticism of the Israeli government is often (not always) motivated by anti-semitism.

 

Israel are guilty of some appalling acts, but so are many countries.  Singling out Israel for criticism is like singling out the Halal slaughter method as barbaric, but ignoring the long list of animal rights abuses we have in this country. 

[Guest makapaka]

2 hours ago, Lex Luthor said:

Ahhh.  Thanks for the heads up, Tony.  I criticised the Saudi Arabia government the other day, therefore I must be an Islamaphobe. 

 

Oh damn it!  Just about every other comment I make is in criticism of our politicians in the UK.  I must be racist towards all UK people everywhere too. 

Criticising a goverment isn't being racist though is it. I think you are confusing the difference between being critical of a political position and racism.

Edited May 13, 2019 by makapaka

[Tony 10]

55 minutes ago, makapaka said:

Criticising a goverment isn't being racist though is it. I think you are confusing the difference between being critical of a political position and racism.

If people shared their criticism around the others involved, all of whom want to eliminate the state of Israel ( Hamas, Hezbollah, Egypt, Iran) you might have a point, but they don't. That's their anti-Semitism.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Tony

[mancmart 10]

There are Jewish socialists (as well as other Jewish groups) in Israel who criticize the Israeli government for it's treatment and intolerance towards Palestinians.

 

Hamas may be wrong in much the same way as the IRA were wrong; but the Israeli government, are a sovereign government; and should  be above these acts of discrimination.

Any form of racism is wrong. Criticising a government's policies does not make one anti Semitic.

Sounds like more New Labour/conservative spin than a genuine attempt at stamping out racism.

 

[Tony 10]

^^^ There's the false equivalence. Hamas aren't "freedom fighters" in the way that the IRA are, they are the government in Gaza.

 

This isn't really meant to be a Middles East politics explainer, I am just trying to highlight the shocking anti-Semitism that some people have brought into the UK through their support (right or wrong) of the Hamas regime.

 

Apart from Halibut, has anyone actually taken the trouble to read the link in the OP and is willing to agree that there is a problem to address? I'd hope that people would, especially after hearing that British Jews are seriously considering leaving the UK. 

[Guest makapaka]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

If people shared their criticism around the others involved, all of whom want to eliminate the state of Israel ( Hamas, Hezbollah, Egypt, Iran) you might have a point, but they don't. That's their anti-Semitism.

I was replying to the other post.

[melthebell 863]

Haha sigh

[Ridgewalk 100]

10 hours ago, Tony said:

Halibut owned it. If only other people would be so considerate (and by the look of it appreciative of the learning experience) when they inadvertently become anti-Semitic. 

 

Without making any specific accusations it's very telling that so many replies rush to denounce the Israeli government, but so far not a mention of Hamas, the Egyptian or Lebanese governments, just a stout defence of last weekend's anti-Semitic marchers linked in the OP.

 

That is anti-Semitism at work, whether or not it is conscious. I thought it would be harder to tease out here but it just came right out.

Eh ? You started a thread about anti-semitism. What is it you're trying to do ? It's not like you're looking to be offended or anything is it ?

[melthebell 863]

1 hour ago, Ridgewalk said:

Eh ? You started a thread about anti-semitism. What is it you're trying to do ? It's not like you're looking to be offended or anything is it ?

Seems to me he's out to call EVERYBODY who criticises Israel's governments actions as antisemitic, to stifle debate

[Bob Arctor 11]

On 12/05/2019 at 09:54, Tony said:

This week another(!) jewish friend of mine told me how he was liquidating his assets in case he needed to move the family out of the UK. There are few things that make me want to weep, but the rise of anti-semitism in the UK is one of them. Where it is done in support of the terrorist Hamas regime in Palestine it is even more woeful and misguided. It doesn't matter if you are kicking down or up, you're still kicking. Stop it.  

 

I try to steer clear of this topic as is brings out the political fanatics who don't even understand that they are antisemites. Most of us have learned the lessons of the past, but please, if you have people around you who haven't learned, take them under your wing and help them. This never ends well for anyone.

 

https://antisemitism.uk/crowds-at-corbyn-supported-anti-israel-march-attended-by-national-front-leader-cheer-as-speaker-says-jewish-organisations-are-in-the-gutter-and-part-of-the-problem/

 

Thanks.

I've got a lifetime of anti-racist, anti-fascist campaigning behind me, have campaigned with all sorts of anti-fascists including Searchlight, Anti Nazi League, UAF, TUC, etc.

 

I've got to say, the article you linked to is highly problematic. There is an awful lot of "reportedly" and so forth in there - presumably the observers had cameras which they could have used to back up all the claims. Lots of partial quotes without context. And clearly Corbyn wouldn't share a platform with the NF - the article tries to conflate Corbyn sending a message of support with the apparent presence of someone from the NF, as if these are somehow linked. Also, one person was wearing an antisemitic pin badge. So yes, they are a Jew hater. But how one person's discrete show of hatred is meant to reflect on everyone else there I don't know.

 

Throughout my years of campaigning it's always been important to correctly identify fascists and Nazis so as to be able to separate them from others and isolate them. Pretending that some people are fascists and Nazis when they are not confuses the issue and makes it harder to identify the genuine article and is therefore dangerous.