Euro Elections

[Longcol 594]

6 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

It's the EU parliament that has supremacy over our own, and one in which, by your own admission, our largest party is an irrelevance. Meanwhile, we are told the EU is democratic.

 

Terrible of them forcing the Euro and Schengen on us wasn't it 😎

[WiseOwl182 10]

2 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Terrible of them forcing the Euro and Schengen on us wasn't it 😎

Freedom of movement.

[I1L2T3 10]

14 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Are potential implications of a leave vote covered in degree courses? I can't remember them being when I was at uni.

Ridiculous strawman argument

21 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

It's the EU parliament that has supremacy over our own, and one in which, by your own admission, our largest party is an irrelevance. Meanwhile, we are told the EU is democratic.

A larger number of people going to uni to do Mickey Mouse studies doesn't make them more educated. Unless EU brain washing takes place at said universities?

Classic right wing tactic there: attack and denigrate the benefits of education.

 

Step back and look at what you are posting.

[WiseOwl182 10]

28 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Ridiculous strawman argument

Classic right wing tactic there: attack and denigrate the benefits of education.

 

Step back and look at what you are posting.

You're trying to argue that getting a degree makes you want to remain in the EU. I would say being younger makes you want to remain in the EU (simply because it's the fashionable position to hold and fits in with the social media echo chambers) but the fact younger people have more degrees is purely a function of recent government policy to push more people into university. Not all of those that go to university need to, or should do.

[Voice of reason 0]

1 hour ago, I1L2T3 said:

So you have the benefit of all that experience (probably much of it facilitated in some way by our EEC/EC/EU memberships) and you still think voting for the Brexit Party is a good idea?

 

Why would you want to strip those opportunities away from others? That is what is at stake.

That's right. All socialising between classes, nationalities, genders will cease. As will all travel, education and working anywhere outside of our own villages.

[I1L2T3 10]

1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:

That's right. All socialising between classes, nationalities, genders will cease. As will all travel, education and working anywhere outside of our own villages.

No it won’t, but it will be made a whole lot more difficult for youngsters to visit, live, study and work elsewhere.

 

You know I’m right. 

 

You’ve lost this argument

[L00b 441]

3 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

It's the EU parliament that has supremacy over our own, and one in which, by your own admission, our largest party is an irrelevance. Meanwhile, we are told the EU is democratic.

(...)

We're going round in circles here, and the above is such a confused mess of clichés demonstrating a fundamental lack of awareness about basic EU principles and membership, that I'm wondering whether you're deliberately muddling, or you lack knowledge to the extent of not even knowing what you don't know about the EU, democracy and sovereignty.

 

So let's just try a different tack: you're somehow miffed because I posted a while back, that the 29 Brexit Party MEPs, as a group, are irrelevant in the broader context of the total number of 751 MEPs in the EU Parliament. And/or you're using that fact (it's not an admission, it's primary school maths) as justification that the UK must Brexit, because those 29 British MEPs, by themselves, aren't going to be able to make Johnny Foreigner jump to their tune.

 

29 Brexit Party MEPs out of 751 MEPs is not a Parliamentary majority. Neither is 73 British MEPs. Neither is 72 French MEPs.

 

376 MEPs is a majority: nothing gets agreed and done at the EU by a single Member country. Nothing ever did. Before the UK joined, nor since.

 

Until you get this, and also -perhaps, and helpfully- basics like pooled sovereignty areas and consensual politics, you've no hope of ever understanding EU membership, and who your geopolitical mates really are.

 

Now please Brexit, eat your black bread for a few years, learn useful life lessons in the process, and then you can come back when you're ready.

Edited June 4, 2019 by L00b

[I1L2T3 10]

2 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

You're trying to argue that getting a degree makes you want to remain in the EU. I would say being younger makes you want to remain in the EU (simply because it's the fashionable position to hold and fits in with the social media echo chambers) but the fact younger people have more degrees is purely a function of recent government policy to push more people into university. Not all of those that go to university need to, or should do.

No I’m not. I’m saying that expanding you mind a little, getting a more rounded education, meeting different people and seeing more of the world helps a lot of people appreciate and understand the benefits of what we have. Don’t try and switch it to a discussion about the value of education. I’m not going to let you pivot on this.

 

Your charade of sitting on the fence has fallen apart hasn’t it....

[WiseOwl182 10]

17 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

No I’m not. I’m saying that expanding you mind a little, getting a more rounded education, meeting different people and seeing more of the world helps a lot of people appreciate and understand the benefits of what we have. Don’t try and switch it to a discussion about the value of education. I’m not going to let you pivot on this.

 

Your charade of sitting on the fence has fallen apart hasn’t it....

Not at all, I'm definitely still on the fence.

[WiseOwl182 10]

40 minutes ago, L00b said:

We're going round in circles here, and the above is such a confused mess of clichés demonstrating a fundamental lack of awareness about basic EU principles and membership, that I'm wondering whether you're deliberately muddling, or you lack knowledge to the extent of not even knowing what you don't know about the EU, democracy and sovereignty.

 

So let's just try a different tack: you're somehow miffed because I posted a while back, that the 29 Brexit Party MEPs, as a group, are irrelevant in the broader context of the total number of 751 MEPs in the EU Parliament. And/or you're using that fact (it's not an admission, it's primary school maths) as justification that the UK must Brexit, because those 29 British MEPs, by themselves, aren't going to be able to make Johnny Foreigner jump to their tune.

 

29 Brexit Party MEPs out of 751 MEPs is not a Parliamentary majority. Neither is 73 British MEPs. Neither is 72 French MEPs.

 

376 MEPs is a majority: nothing gets agreed and done at the EU by a single Member country. Nothing ever did. Before the UK joined, nor since.

 

Until you get this, and also -perhaps, and helpfully- basics like pooled sovereignty areas and consensual politics, you've no hope of ever understanding EU membership, and who your geopolitical mates really are.

 

Now please Brexit, eat your black bread for a few years, learn useful life lessons in the process, and then you can come back when you're ready.

You're missing my point, as well as being smarmily insulting. I get how the EU works. I get that even if all our MEPs were the same party they would still have little influence in the EU parliament. I'm using that as justification as to why a lot of people would vote for Brexit. People don't want laws enacted in our country when our representatives only had a minority say in them. Many people simply don't want the UK to become a member state of a United States of Europe, and as time has gone on, it has moved more and more towards that - diluted representation being symptomatic.

[Voice of reason 0]

10 hours ago, I1L2T3 said:

No it won’t, but it will be made a whole lot more difficult for youngsters to visit, live, study and work elsewhere.

 

You know I’m right. 

 

You’ve lost this argument

You can't win or lose an argument, if it has become an argument.

 

The life experience and education you mentioned earlier, normally enhances peoples ability to have an open mind.

The mixing with different people, travel, education, working in different environments, have all helped me realise that my opinions are just that. They may be right they may be wrong, an opinion is rarely either. Life is rarely black or white, the rich tapestry of the world is partly due to people holding differing views and living their lives in different ways. 

Other peoples opinions are just as valid as mine, and from their viewpoint, their opinion is right for them.

Invariably problems occur when people are intolerant or unaccepting of other views and beliefs. Most of the problem points in the world are due to that.

So, I wish you well, and I imagine we'll not agree on this topic, but I hope you can  listen a little more sympatheticly to the groups you mentioned, and appreciate their views and experiences are just as valid as anyone elses.

[Car Boot 10]

LEAVE has won the Peterborough by-election.

 

Labour's Lisa Forces won on 10,484 votes.  She campaigned on a platform to honour the referendum and deliver Brexit. In second came the Brexit party, on 9,801 votes. 

 

Remain voters gave their vote to the Liberal Democrats, champions of austerity for the poor. They gained 4,159 votes.