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Euro Elections

mort

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1 hour ago, Car Boot said:

The late Tony Benn once proposed asking five questions of the powerful men in the EU:

 

What power do you have?

Where did you get your power?

In whose interests do you exercise your power?

To whom are you accountable?

How can we get rid of you?

 

“Anyone who cannot answer the last of those questions does not live in a democratic system", Tony Benn.

 

The UK electorate has no power to vote out either the European Commission or the European Council. 

 

The European Council determines the political priorities of the European Union. The EU Commission has the sole power to write legislation. Both are undemocratic and their power is deliberately kept well away from the European voters.

 

Trump tells UK: ‘Leave EU without a deal and send Farage to negotiate’. 

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10 hours ago, Longcol said:

No single country can get their own way. They can join with like minded colleagues in other countries to gain influence.

 

Bit like Yorkshire & Humberside MP's in Parliament -  54 MP's out of 650.

Yorkshire isn't a sovereign state though.

It's not about forcing the others. Its the opposite.

Any EU has stated they'll just do Council decision stuff, which negates the approval of pesky parliamentarians.

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18 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

Yorkshire isn't a sovereign state though.

It's not about forcing the others. Its the opposite.

Any EU has stated they'll just do Council decision stuff, which negates the approval of pesky parliamentarians.

It's only a difference of scale isn't it.  There's no fundamental difference between arbitrary borders drawn at the county or the country level.

2 hours ago, Car Boot said:

The late Tony Benn once proposed asking five questions of the powerful men in the EU:

 

What power do you have?

Where did you get your power?

In whose interests do you exercise your power?

To whom are you accountable?

How can we get rid of you?

 

“Anyone who cannot answer the last of those questions does not live in a democratic system", Tony Benn.

 

The UK electorate has no power to vote out either the European Commission or the European Council. 

 

The European Council determines the political priorities of the European Union. The EU Commission has the sole power to write legislation. Both are undemocratic and their power is deliberately kept well away from the European voters.

 

Not true in the least is it.

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/23/the-european-council

 

The european council is made up of the elected heads of the european states.

 

Quote

The European Council, formed by the Heads of State or Government of the Member States, provides the necessary impetus for the development of the European Union and sets out the general political guidelines.

 

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On 31/05/2019 at 23:20, WiseOwl182 said:

How much relevance do UK representatives have in the EU parliament?

 

1) Very little - less than 10% of MEPs and unlikely to influence much. An irrelevance.

 

2) A lot - the UK's MEPs are very influential and relevant. The Brexit Party MEPs willcause havoc because of their relevance.

Was that a question to me, then?

 

Because it looks like you’ve answered it yourself (moreover, wrongly so; as I pointed out to you when you first made that question-and-answer post, and as other posters have since pointed out to you as well after that re-post).

 

The 73 UK MEPs, as a whole but by themselves, have relevance in the EU Parliament that is proportional to the population of the UK. Same setup for every other EU Member State, eg tiny Luxembourg here with its 6 MEPs, France with its 72 MEPs (etc) - for a grand total of 751 MEPs.

 

Given that context, the 29 Brexit Party MEPs (less than half of the U.K. total) have less than half as much relevance as  U.K. MEPs as a whole...and I’ll let you come to terms on your own, about how much ‘havoc’ these 29 would manage to wreak by themselves out of 751 (because I’ve already explained all the above days ago).

 

Now, of course, Mr Farage is busy seeking alliances with other groups of Eurosceptic MEPs, and some of these have very strong whiffs of fascism about them, but well. So the 29 Brexit Party MEP might manage to wreak some havoc after all (if they stay in the EU Parliament long enough), if they manage to join forces with enough like-minded MEPs of other European countries...I doubt you’ll see the irony in that, even though it’s properly off-the-scale

Edited by L00b

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On 02/06/2019 at 07:47, Car Boot said:

The late Tony Benn once proposed asking five questions of the powerful men in the EU:

 

What power do you have?

Where did you get your power?

In whose interests do you exercise your power?

To whom are you accountable?

How can we get rid of you?

 

“Anyone who cannot answer the last of those questions does not live in a democratic system", Tony Benn.

 

The UK electorate has no power to vote out either the European Commission or the European Council. 

 

The European Council determines the political priorities of the European Union. The EU Commission has the sole power to write legislation. Both are undemocratic and their power is deliberately kept well away from the European voters.

 

I never thought Tony Benn had the brains to come up with these comments,  it's  a pity his son in Parliament  doesn't  think the same way.

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On 27/05/2019 at 18:20, Car Boot said:

470,351 votes in Yorkshire and the Humber for the Brexit Party! Amazing!

 

23,459 votes for the Brexit Party in Barnsley (Labour came second with 7,693 votes).

30,016 votes for the Brexit Party in Doncaster (Labour came second with 11,393 votes).

53,600 votes for the Brexit Party in wealthy Leeds (Labour came second with 36,377 votes).

 

Brexit party is the top choice for voters all over Yorkshire!

 

Yorkshire is now an EU FREE ZONE.

 

Voters have firmly rejected the metropolitan, globalist bankers vision of the UK.

 

 

And gone for the foreigner-hating crackpots instead. The Brexit lineup reads like something out of a Hammer horror film. Voters have firmly rejected, errm gone for, the metropolitan, globalist bankers vision of the UK.

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11 hours ago, L00b said:

Was that a question to me, then?

 

Because it looks like you’ve answered it yourself (moreover, wrongly so; as I pointed out to you when you first made that question-and-answer post, and as other posters have since pointed out to you as well after that re-post).

 

The 73 UK MEPs, as a whole but by themselves, have relevance in the EU Parliament that is proportional to the population of the UK. Same setup for every other EU Member State, eg tiny Luxembourg here with its 6 MEPs, France with its 72 MEPs (etc) - for a grand total of 751 MEPs.

 

Given that context, the 29 Brexit Party MEPs (less than half of the U.K. total) have less than half as much relevance as  U.K. MEPs as a whole...and I’ll let you come to terms on your own, about how much ‘havoc’ these 29 would manage to wreak by themselves out of 751 (because I’ve already explained all the above days ago).

 

Now, of course, Mr Farage is busy seeking alliances with other groups of Eurosceptic MEPs, and some of these have very strong whiffs of fascism about them, but well. So the 29 Brexit Party MEP might manage to wreak some havoc after all (if they stay in the EU Parliament long enough), if they manage to join forces with enough like-minded MEPs of other European countries...I doubt you’ll see the irony in that, even though it’s properly off-the-scale

And I doubt you see the irony of our largest elected party being an "irrelevance" in the EU parliament.

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37 minutes ago, jaffa1 said:

I never thought Tony Benn had the brains to come up with these comments,  it's  a pity his son in Parliament  doesn't  think the same way.

Those questions are much more pertinent to Farage, Johnson and the rest. Trump is letting us know he'll be boss over us in that brave new post-Brexit world that awaits of no Nissan, no Airbus, a privatised NHS and chlorinated chickens.

2 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

And I doubt you see the irony of our largest elected party being an "irrelevance" in the EU parliament.

 

2 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

And I doubt you see the irony of our largest elected party being an "irrelevance" in the EU parliament.

If Farage's past is anything to go by, they'll be more familiar with the boozers of Brussels than the debating chamber of the EU Parliament. Idle Nigel was proud to hold up a clutch of mackerel in front of a trawler crew but attended only one debate out of 43 on fisheries.

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On 01/06/2019 at 23:08, Longcol said:

They'd need a staggering improvement on their attendance record. Farage's was less than 41%, putting him 745th out of 746 in 2016.

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1 minute ago, pss60 said:

They'd need a staggering improvement on their attendance record. Farage's was less than 41%, putting him 745th out of 746 in 2016.

You're missing the point. If our largest (by far) party (and it could be any party) has such little influence in the EU parliament, is it any wonder so many wanted Brexit when their democracy has been effectively outsourced?

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On 29/05/2019 at 00:19, Top Cats Hat said:

If you want to include Labour and Tory votes then the simplest way to do it is look at the support for each option at the referendum and assume that it hasn't changed substantially.

 

Labour got 14.1% of the vote last week which we shall assign 65% Remain and 35% Leave as per the referendum. That adds 9.1% to Remain and 5% to Leave.

 

The Conservatives got 9.09% of the vote which we shall assign 75% to Leave and 25% Remain. That adds 6.7% to Leave and 2.2% to Remain

 

Taking both into consideration that adds 11.3% to Remain and 11.7% to Leave so in fact apportioning 50:50 to all Labour and Conservative votes does almost the same thing ie cancel each other out which takes us back to my first calculation which worked out at 54.2% Remain to 45.7% Leave.

 

After finding out that both the Alliance Party in Ireland and the Womens Equality Party are both strongly Remain parties, that adds another 150,000 to the Remain tally. That then gives 54.7% Remain and 45.2% Leave which is a Remain lead of 9.5% which is only 0.5% off the 10% I mentioned earlier. Even taking into account the fact that 100% of LibDem voters weren't necessarily voting to remain that is still a substantial lead for remain over leave and whichever way you try to twist it won't change by more than 1 or 2% either way.

There's also the demographic effect. Seven out of every ten voters who die are Brexiteers. Eight out of every ten reaching 18 are Remainers, and because of the age gap between the typical Brexiteer and the typical Remainer we are seeing Remain's lead grow by almost 500,000 every year from reaching Crossover Day on 19th January - the day according to Peter Kellner where Britain would become a Remain country, even if nobody who voted in a future referendum changed their minds from the 2016 Referendum.

 

Besides, by 2024, there will be more Remain voters still alive who voted in that referendum than Brexiteers thanks to that demographic effect - stripping out those who will have turned 18 since then. Another effect is improving education levels among the population - 24% of postgraduates voted for Brexit while 78% of those with few or no qualifications did so - and the number of people with few or no qualifications will shrink over time.

Edited by pss60

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1 minute ago, pss60 said:

There's also the demographic effect. Seven out of every ten voters who die are Brexiteers. Eight out of every ten reaching 18 are Remainers. The effect of that is to widen Remain's lead by almost 500,000 every year since we reached Crossover Day on 19th January - the day according to Peter Kellner where Britain would become a Remain country, even if nobody who voted changed their minds from the 2016 Referendum.

Have you asked them how they voted.

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