Euro Elections

[Lockdoctor 10]

4 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

It also tells us that the desire to remain hasn’t changed either.

 

It tells us there are multiple versions of leave.

 

It tells us that we as a country are still split, and that three years after the referendum there is still a long way to go before we leave.

Yes, I agree the country is split.  However, the European election result tells us that the single  party which  won the EU election in the UK by a considerable margin campaigned for leaving the EU on 31st October on WTO terms.  The only way to end this matter is for the UK to leave the EU on 31st October with or without a deal and implement the democratic  2016 EU referendum result.

[tinfoilhat 11]

5 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Yes, I agree the country is split.  However, the European election result tells us that the single  party which  won the EU election in the UK by a considerable margin campaigned for leaving the EU on 31st October on WTO terms.  The only way to end this matter is for the UK to leave the EU on 31st October with or without a deal and implement the democratic  2016 EU referendum result.

Swiftly followed by the break up of the UK.

[Lockdoctor 10]

9 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

You are pretty deluded if you think a new PM can force through no-deal. There enough MPs from both sides of the isle to collapse the government to prevent this. Phillip Hammond has already fired warning shots. 

The new PM won't want to force through a no-deal but will seek to get the back stop changed on the current deal on offer.  The only way to get anything changed is by our country being prepared to leave the EU on a no deal basis.  Anyone  who is not prepared to walk away from any deal is deluded if they think they can negotiate terms favourable for themselves.   

[Voice of reason 0]

1 minute ago, tinfoilhat said:

Swiftly followed by the break up of the UK.

Quite possibly. I dont think a WTO exit is the way forward, But, what he posted is essentially true.

We have a problem of handling a backlash from people umhappy at being ignored. The backlash result can be more extreme than solving the problem in a milder way, sooner.

Same is happening in Europe, but worse. Extreme parties are gaining ground due to mainstream parties refusing to do anything except follow their own agenda.

[Lockdoctor 10]

2 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Swiftly followed by the break up of the UK.

Having a second EU referendum with Remain on the ballot paper or revoking Article 50 isn't going to help unite our country. The only way to unite our country is for the losers of the democratic 2016 EU referendum to accept the result and for our MPs to stop blocking implementation of the democratic 2016 EU referendum result.

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 hours ago, Voice of reason said:

Quite possibly. I dont think a WTO exit is the way forward, But, what he posted is essentially true.

We have a problem of handling a backlash from people umhappy at being ignored. The backlash result can be more extreme than solving the problem in a milder way, sooner.

Same is happening in Europe, but worse. Extreme parties are gaining ground due to mainstream parties refusing to do anything except follow their own agenda.

But sending farage and Johnson to EU negotiations (We live in a world where that is now a strong possibility) will not make the EU change it's mind and massively change their standpoint, if anything the only they'll say is no more extensions to get those two <removed> out the door. 

 

Just wanting a unicorn deal will not make it happen. There isn't one to be had given the make up of the house of commons and the power that the DUP hold.

2 hours ago, Lockdoctor said:

Having a second EU referendum with Remain on the ballot paper or revoking Article 50 isn't going to help unite our country. The only way to unite our country is for the losers of the democratic 2016 EU referendum to accept the result and for our MPs to stop blocking implementation of the democratic 2016 EU referendum result.

Please say you know that hard-core leavers stopped Mays deal through at least as much as remainers did, if not more.

Edited May 27, 2019 by nikki-red

[ez8004 10]

20 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

The new PM won't want to force through a no-deal but will seek to get the back stop changed on the current deal on offer.  The only way to get anything changed is by our country being prepared to leave the EU on a no deal basis.  Anyone  who is not prepared to walk away from any deal is deluded if they think they can negotiate terms favourable for themselves.   

Change the backstop before the end of October? Really?

 

Who is the government going to negotiate with to do that? The EU are in transition with new EU leaders being decided on. 

 

The EU have said there is no altering the deal. So the deal can’t change and no-deal is not possible. Not many options left are there?

[Top Cats Hat 10]

18 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

We have a problem of handling a backlash from people umhappy at being ignored.

Remind me again what happened when we didn't leave on 29th March?

[Pettytom 1]

17 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Having a second EU referendum with Remain on the ballot paper or revoking Article 50 isn't going to help unite our country. The only way to unite our country is for the losers of the democratic 2016 EU referendum to accept the result and for our MPs to stop blocking implementation of the democratic 2016 EU referendum result.

There is another way.

 

If the winners of the referendum acknowledged that the views of the 48.5% were also important, we could look for a soft Brexit and then get on with the rest of our lives. 

 

Sadly, many of the Leavers seem happy to jump up and down shouting “we won, get over it”

 

That’s no way to run a democracy 

[Lockdoctor 10]

6 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

There is another way.

 

If the winners of the referendum acknowledged that the views of the 48.5% were also important, we could look for a soft Brexit and then get on with the rest of our lives. 

 

Sadly, many of the Leavers seem happy to jump up and down shouting “we won, get over it”

 

That’s no way to run a democracy 

I speak as a person who was on the losing side of the democratic 2016 EU referendum when I write that the losers should respect the result.  If remain had won the  democratic 2016 EU referendum vote then I would have expected our country to remain 100%  in the EU because it was a binary choice.

 

The only way to run a democracy is to respect and honour democratic choices  made regardless of whether you personally voted for the choice the democratic people made.

[Ridgewalk 99]

4 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

I speak as a person who was on the losing side of the democratic 2016 EU referendum when I write that the losers should respect the result.  If remain had won the  democratic 2016 EU referendum vote then I would have expected our country to remain 100%  in the EU because it was a binary choice.

 

The only way to run a democracy is to respect and honour democratic choices  made regardless of whether you personally voted for the choice the democratic people made.

Agree. I voted Remain, my life will be negatively directly affected by leaving the EU,  I still believe the result should be respected

[apelike 10]

21 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

The EU have said there is no altering the deal. So the deal can’t change and no-deal is not possible.... 

A no-deal is still the default and unless something drastic happens it will be a no-deal.