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Euro Elections

mort

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3 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

You are behaving undemocratically by thinking like that you hypocrite. Why is your vote worth more than another EU citizen in these elections?

Because in the UK, as a UK citizen and resident, my vote should count and those of people not living here should not. It's simple really. We never voted to join a superstate with heavily diluted democratic representation.

2 minutes ago, altus said:

If you're arguing whether people support brexit, it's the the intentions of the voters that count.

 

Following your argument, if a party changes its official position on brexit all their voters' views on it would also change.

No, the position can only count at the time of the election, obviously.

7 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

The Tories are a majority soft Brexit party too, in terms of the views of their MPs

 

The ERG make the most noise but they are maybe 20% or less of the Party in Parliament

You're trying to split the leave vote. The Tories stand for leave, whether it's hard or soft, that is their position. Trying to apportion a percentage of their vote to Remain is desperate.

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11 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Because in the UK, as a UK citizen and resident, my vote should count and those of people not living here should not. It's simple really. We never voted to join a superstate with heavily diluted democratic representation.

No, the position can only count at the time of the election, obviously.

You're trying to split the leave vote. The Tories stand for leave, whether it's hard or soft, that is their position. Trying to apportion a percentage of their vote to Remain is desperate.

These were elections to the EU Parliament and not Westminster. You know The difference right?

 

So the likes of Ken Clarke is a leave supporter?

Edited by ez8004

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7 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

So the likes of Ken Clarke is a leave supporter?

Irrelevant. The Conservatives stood on a leave platform. Ken Clarke is not the party leader and does not decide party policy.

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20 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Irrelevant. The Conservatives stood on a leave platform. Ken Clarke is not the party leader and does not decide party policy.

So his votes and other remainer Tory MPs don’t count in Parliament?

 

You are the kind of person that bangs in about sovereignty and complain about EU legislation but you’re unable to give a single example of a piece of legislation that is bad for our country. Workers’ rights is really bad for example right?

Edited by ez8004

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4 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

So his votes and other remainer Tory MPs don’t count in Parliament?

 

You are the kind of person that bangs in about sovereignty and complain about EU legislation but you’re unable to give a single example of a piece of legislation that is bad for our country. Workers’ rights is really bad for example right?

His vote count but this was not a UK government election, it was an EU election being used as a proxy referendum and as such it is the party's stance that is what counts if we are to be able to apportion votes to leave and remain.

 

Whether or not EU legislation is good or bad is not the point. It should be for our government only to decide the legislation for this country.

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I voted for the Lib Dems. It was either them or the Green Party for me. 

 

In a General election I usually vote Labour, but not this time. I've heard nothing but wishy-washy ambiguous mixed messages from Jeremy Corbyn on the Brexit position over the last two years, so that's why they didn't get my vote. 

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1 hour ago, WiseOwl182 said:

No, as I keep saying, it's the platform that the party is standing on that counts, not what you estimate the intentions of their voters to be. 

You really are clutching at straws now. If the Leave vote was so big, why are you scrabbling around trying to steal Remain votes to boost the numbers?

 

John Curtice has it right when he said this morning that it was pointless trying to count ‘implied’ votes from this election. He said that the consistent polling is much more accurate and that puts Remain on about 53% and Leave on 46-47%.

 

Farage may have the biggest vote but it doesn’t alter one bit the undeniable fact that the majority of UK citizens wish to remain in the EU.

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11 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

You really are clutching at straws now. If the Leave vote was so big, why are you scrabbling around trying to steal Remain votes to boost the numbers?

 

John Curtice has it right when he said this morning that it was pointless trying to count ‘implied’ votes from this election. He said that the consistent polling is much more accurate and that puts Remain on about 53% and Leave on 46-47%.

 

Farage may have the biggest vote but it doesn’t alter one bit the undeniable fact that the majority of UK citizens wish to remain in the EU.

I'm not clutching at straws at all. I stated how the votes could be apportioned between leave and remain long before the results came out.

 

What did John Curtice predict before 2016?

 

If there was a second referendum and it came out 52% remain and 48% leave, what then? Which of the two votes would take precedence, or should there then be a third to decide it once and for all?

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1 hour ago, WiseOwl182 said:

And there in a nutshell is why Brexit happened. We've found ourselves in a position where our laws can be passed on the basis that our biggest party in EU elections and therefore our representatives in the EU parliament make up 29/751 and in your own words, have no relevance. This is why people find it undemocratic and want to regain sovereignty. 

You don't really understand this 'EU' thing, how it works, and how it's been working for the past few decades, do you?

 

*There* is why Brexit happened: too many taken in by the lies and misrepresentations hook, line and sinker, without spending the minutest of time reflecting about what tge EU (actually-) is, how it works, and the extent to which the UK's membership has benefitted them personally, professionally and socially.

 

Undemocratic? Sovereignty? Clearly, from your comment above, you don't know the meaning of these words, you're still just parrotting Eurosceptic dog whistles.

 

The voting turnout and the results for the UK's EU elections say all that needs to be said on that front: close to *zero* progress in some 3 years.

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26 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

You really are clutching at straws now. If the Leave vote was so big, why are you scrabbling around trying to steal Remain votes to boost the numbers?

You couldn't make it up, there was someone earlier on the radio claiming that not all "Green" votes should be classed as a vote to remain, as they also have other policies. So it's ok for them to be all "Leave" votes if it is the Tory party. This thread stinks of desperation, its astonishing.

Edited by Dardandec

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9 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

If there was a second referendum and it came out 52% remain and 48% leave, what then? 

That would require a shift from Remain to Leave which is very unlikely as the move has been the other way for three years now.

 

Why would anyone in 2019 switch from Remain to Leave?

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23 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

I'm not clutching at straws at all. I stated how the votes could be apportioned between leave and remain long before the results came out.

 

What did John Curtice predict before 2016?

 

If there was a second referendum and it came out 52% remain and 48% leave, what then? Which of the two votes would take precedence, or should there then be a third to decide it once and for all?

The most recent one as it is with how all laws are made in this country.  You do live in this country right?

 

Are you trying to be silly now?  Serious question, I need to know how low I need to go to debate with you now.

Edited by ez8004

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