People going to work on bikes.

[Cyclone 10]

What you wrote though was that most people who work in the city centre live within a 1 hour walk of the city centre.

 

I'm questioning the validity of that statement.  I'm not trying to score something or win a point, I just think that there's a chance that you're wrong and wanted to explore where that opinion came from.  Is there some data behind it, is it anecdotal, just interested as it doesn't match my anecdotal experience.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 07:24, Cyclone said:

 

There is no general restriction on taking items onto the tram, so if you have a new 60" tele in a box, carry it onto the tram.  Has exactly the same problems, no restraints, nowhere to put it, bloscks exits.  But you're allowed to do that.

There are "general restriction" on taking items onto the tram- first and foremost physical and personal safety.

 

One thing the tram does very well is to promote mobility amongst those who have difficulty.

This is policy and legal requirement for all forms of transport.

Bikes do not fall into this category.

 

The design of our current trams mean that the steps restrict the movement through the tram and that there is competition for space and movement in the doorway area- vestibule.  The added space needed for "bikes" increases this competition".

 

Any injury or damage to property by the action or Stagecoach can be recovered through their insurance or through civil court.

 

Surely you are not suggesting  that there should be more limitations on people with disabilities or need to shop or take their children out?

Mobility chairs have restriction already.

People with other disabilities might need a space in the vestibule.

Prams contain people- and are restricted.

 

Travel on trams and trains has doubled in 20 years.

20 years ago there was guards vans with luggage space which could be used by bikes. On a few tourist and urban routes there were outright bans or a limited number or booking requirements. Slam doors and narrow corridors were a big consideration.

The increase passenger, the removal of guards vans and the increased popularity of cycling has created a much greater demand which cannot be met, hence the huge increase in denial of bike access on trains and trams.

 

A Google search will reveal these arguments in detail

[Cyclone 10]

Policy and legal requirement for all forms of transport, yet you can take your bike onto a train...

 

I'm not suggesting that, someone with a bike should give way to someone who has a mobility problem, in just the same way someone with a pushchair should.

 

Travel has increased (well, it would do on trams wouldn't it, since you simply didn't have the option 25 years ago), that's good.  So why not encourage greater use by increasing flexibility.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

3 hours ago, Cyclone said:

What you wrote though was that most people who work in the city centre live within a 1 hour walk of the city centre.

 

I'm questioning the validity of that statement.  I'm not trying to score something or win a point, I just think that there's a chance that you're wrong and wanted to explore where that opinion came from.  Is there some data behind it, is it anecdotal, just interested as it doesn't match my anecdotal experience.

Within a 3 mile radius of the City centre(Town Hall) are:

Most of Abbeydale Road, Eccleshall Road, Ranmoor,  Broomhill, Crosspool, Crookes, Walkley, most of Stannington and Loxley, Hillsborough, Wadsley Bridge, Longley, most of Firth Park, Fir Vale, Grimethorpe, most of Shirgreen, Darnall, Greenland Road, Wybourn, Manor, Manor Top, Arbourthorne, Heely, Woodseats, Newfield, Nether Edge and Sharrow.

 

This is 28 sq miles

 

Outside this area are The other bits above plus Lodge Moor, Grenoside, Ecclesfield. Handsworth, Woodhouse, Beighton, Mosborogh, Frechville, Jordanthore, Herdings, Birley, Gleadless, Norton Totley, Bradway and Dore.

 

Source: Google Earth

 

Points to note

I've probably missed a few.

Crow flies

Up and down a lot

Faster down town

University and hospital workers will change the walk to work zone.

 

[Cyclone 10]

28 sqr miles yes, I don't know if that tells us very much though.

People in my office commute from Birmingham!  And more people come from Leeds, Barnsley, Doncaster and so on.

 

I've no idea the ratio of those who work in the city centre who live within 3 miles, but anecdotally it doesn't seem to be "most".

[Annie Bynnol 612]

1 hour ago, Cyclone said:

Policy and legal requirement for all forms of transport, yet you can take your bike onto a train...

 

I'm not suggesting that, someone with a bike should give way to someone who has a mobility problem, in just the same way someone with a pushchair should.

 

Travel has increased (well, it would do on trams wouldn't it, since you simply didn't have the option 25 years ago), that's good.  So why not encourage greater use by increasing flexibility.

You can take your bike on a train subject to the by-laws of the TOC - the restrictions are increasing because of increasing use.

Sheffield, Blackpool and Manchester trams were operating 25 years ago.

No tram system (above plus Croydon, Birmingham and Nottingham) in the UK allows bikes on trams.

Bikes are allowed on the Docklands(light rail) off peak.

Nexus (heavy rail infrastructure and trains) does allow one bike per carriage on a trial on some of its network. The trial will decide the design of next fleet of trains. The bikes will not be carried in tunnels or over the bridge. The data (including passenger comfort)collected will influence future policy and design.

 

GMIT, Cycles on Trams Working Group on the 18 June 2010 issued a 37 page a report on why they and the operator objected to the introduction of trams on trains 
 
GMIT also: 15th January 2010. The Implications of the Carriage of Bicycles on Trams  8 pages

 

Will link when I can to the .pdf

 

Forgot about the Edinburgh tram-

Edited May 8, 2019 by Annie Bynnol

[carosio 186]

Appears that one bike is parked on a seat.

 

https://www.thestar.co.uk/our-towns-and-cities/sheffield/row-over-bikes-on-trams-1-9414014

[Cyclone 10]

16 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

You can take your bike on a train subject to the by-laws of the TOC - the restrictions are increasing because of increasing use.

Sheffield, Blackpool and Manchester trams were operating 25 years ago.

No tram system (above plus Croydon, Birmingham and Nottingham) in the UK allows bikes on trams.

Bikes are allowed on the Docklands(light rail) off peak.

Nexus (heavy rail infrastructure and trains) does allow one bike per carriage on a trial on some of its network. The trial will decide the design of next fleet of trains. The bikes will not be carried in tunnels or over the bridge. The data (including passenger comfort)collected will influence future policy and design.

 

GMIT, Cycles on Trams Working Group on the 18 June 2010 issued a 37 page a report on why they and the operator objected to the introduction of trams on trains 
 
GMIT also: 15th January 2010. The Implications of the Carriage of Bicycles on Trams  8 pages

 

Will link when I can to the .pdf

 

Forgot about the Edinburgh tram-

Fascinating.

 

So some forms of transport, very tram like (the DLR) do somehow manage to allow bikes on without them injuring people or damaging clothes all over the place.

 

It's clearly possible to do, if there is a will and a desire to make it happen.

[RootsBooster 24]

I've been cycling across the city centre (most week days) for the best part of a year now, my input on a few of the subjects in this thread...

 

The hills- In the city centre there's nothing much of a challenge, coming out of it and into the suburbs there are some chuffs though. I think if you have a decent bike with decent gearing, it isn't all that bad.

 

The tram- Having been on the tram at peak times quite often, I doubt it would be possible to get a bike on there even if it were allowed, wheelchair users and parents with prams struggle enough as it is. The times when I've caught a tram in the morning, I've been stood almost cheek to cheek with the people around me, I wouldn't have been able to board with a bike. I like the idea of an external cycle rack though.

 

Hazards- I ride mostly on the cycle paths/lanes, so I'm mainly at risk of oblivious pedestrians and other cyclists. It's surprising how many pedestrians walk in the cycle paths/lanes and don't appear to realise what it is intended for (they also have a habit of not keeping in a straight line when staring down at their phones, adding a fun game of chance on your approach). With other cyclists I find that the 'inertia addicts' on two wheels are particularly dangerous when entering/exiting the underpasses without slowing down. The other regular problem is from bewildered -looking cyclists who don't know which side to move over to when approaching oncoming cycle-traffic (I always assume you should keep to your left, similar to road traffic flow).

I've only had one near miss with a car in the city centre, although when cycling out in the suburbs the cars tend to be the most common threat.

 

Weather- I find the weather doesn't matter too much, unless it's raining heavily. Light showers don't bother me.

 

[Longcol 600]

On 08/05/2019 at 16:43, Annie Bynnol said:

Within a 3 mile radius of the City centre(Town Hall) are:

Most of Abbeydale Road, Eccleshall Road, Ranmoor,  Broomhill, Crosspool, Crookes, Walkley, most of Stannington and Loxley, Hillsborough, Wadsley Bridge, Longley, most of Firth Park, Fir Vale, Grimethorpe, most of Shirgreen, Darnall, Greenland Road, Wybourn, Manor, Manor Top, Arbourthorne, Heely, Woodseats, Newfield, Nether Edge and Sharrow.

 

This is 28 sq miles

 

Outside this area are The other bits above plus Lodge Moor, Grenoside, Ecclesfield. Handsworth, Woodhouse, Beighton, Mosborogh, Frechville, Jordanthore, Herdings, Birley, Gleadless, Norton Totley, Bradway and Dore.

 

Also presumably outside but part of Sheffield - High Green, Chapeltown, Oughtibridge, Wharncliffe Side, Deepcar /Stocksbridge, Worrall /Bradfield, Middlewood.

 

Plus of course loads of commuters from Dronfield and North Derbys, Worksop and North Notts, Brinsworth / Rotherham, Hope Valley  - as well as those already mentioned by Cyclone.

[ez8004 10]

I commuted across the city on my Brompton and never had an issue with the hills with a 6 speed version. Going on the train was really straightforward but I always chained my bike to the luggage rack if I was out of sight of it. 

 

The Brompton is the best bike I have bought for commuting. 

[Guest makapaka]

I wouldn't cycle around roads in the city centre - nor most parts of the suburbs  - for a golden pig.  It's madness.

 

Totally outdated form of transport for a city. I understand it ticks boxes for health and the environment but involves transport by balancing on metal spindles with zero protection on dangerous, busy roads.

 

In an ideal world yes but realistically - no ta.

Edited May 14, 2019 by makapaka