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People going to work on bikes.

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On 31/05/2019 at 17:17, Cyclone said:

Is that what you see?  I see the exact opposite, in any discussion about the road generally, particularly in town, someone will bring up the bad behaviour of cyclists.

That's not what I said, what I said was "In contrast, on most threads about motorists nobody (with the likely exception of Penistone999) tends to mention the bad habits of cyclists."

On 31/05/2019 at 17:17, Cyclone said:

I thought that the point was very clear, motorists rarely generalise about motorists, they however cannot resist generalising about cyclists.  Presumably because they aren't one themselves, so they are other and thus they can be tribal about it.  Cyclists on the other hand are generally motorists as well, and so don't do that.

In just about every thread I've seen about motorists, motorists generalise about motorists.

This one even begins with "I think it`s important to stress that these are generalisations" in the very first line of the opening post...

 https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/60797-the-worst-drivers-which-cars-do-they-drive/?tab=comments#comment-1030894

 

Out of curiosity, how many posts in this thread do you interpret as generalising against cyclists?

Edited by RootsBooster

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All the ones that say something along the lines of "cyclists run red lights" with no qualification to even say "most" which would still be incorrect.

 

As my ongoing report though, one cyclists yesterday sort of ran a light, well, came off the pavement, through the light at an angle and back onto the pavement at the other side.  I guess he thought he was a pedestrian.

2 cars ran red lights, both amber gamblers who didn't quite make it.

And and additional car made an illegal turn at Hillsborough corner across the green man and through the pedestrian crossing.  That's the second one of those I've seen in a fortnight, I think the tram works are causing a minority drivers some confusion and they then just ignore the rules and safety of others and do what they like.

23 hours ago, stifflersmom said:

Oh, that's good isn't it.

Quote


I asked the IAM for more details, and what eventually came was interesting. To start with, this isn't a proper "poll", at least not in the Mori-type sense of some attempt at even-handedness. This was something a self-selected bunch of visitors to the IAM website filled in using a web tool called Survey Monkey. They probably all weren't drivers determined to ruin the name of cyclists, but the point is there were no safeguards against this.

More disturbing still, while the press release talked as if 57% of cyclists jump lights regularly, the breakdown of the figures showed, in fact, only 1.9% confessed to this. Another 11.8% did so "sometimes" while 24.6% did "rarely", and 19.1% had done so once or twice.

Right. So not only is an unscientific, self-selected survey being presented as a poll, the headline figure is utterly misleading. And yet that's what will doubtless be reported tomorrow.

 

 

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Today I saw a younger rider go through a red light and then use the pavement, and also an older rider use the pavement to avoid passing through a tram stop where it narrows.  I can understand the latter, although I don't do it myself, since drivers persist in trying to pass where it's too narrow to do so safely.

I also had 2 drivers start to pull out on me, despite wearing high vis blue coat in the rain and having lights on.  And one car pass me far too close at a pinch point here.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3971775,-1.4901167,3a,75y,345.95h,80.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5-SGwO0yPgN9mIo_ka5_YA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

On 23/05/2019 at 19:24, WiseOwl182 said:

I'd say most cyclists don't obey red light laws, so would be even less likely to obey pavement speed limits without a speedo.

And Roots, this was the post that started the "usual" back and forth.  Someone who can't help but generalise about cyclists.

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3 hours ago, Cyclone said:

 

And Roots, this was the post that started the "usual" back and forth.  Someone who can't help but generalise about cyclists.

You were proposing an additional speed law for a group of road users who don't obey the existing ones, so I called it out for what it was - an unsuitable solution.

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Oh I see.

So what you're saying is that since a few car drivers run red lights (and an awful lot more speed), that there's no point in having laws to govern their speeds...  Or does this bizarre argument only apply to cycles?

Also if you were claiming that laws regarding speeds apply to cycles now but are ignored (I'm not sure, you were unclear), then you'd be wrong.

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I would like to propose a speeding law that says you can only go past a pedestrian on an adjacent pavement or a cyclist on the road at a maximum of 30 mph even if you are on a 40 or 50 mph limit road.

 

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I can't see how that would work to be honest.

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9 hours ago, Cyclone said:

Oh I see.

So what you're saying is that since a few car drivers run red lights (and an awful lot more speed), that there's no point in having laws to govern their speeds...  Or does this bizarre argument only apply to cycles?

Also if you were claiming that laws regarding speeds apply to cycles now but are ignored (I'm not sure, you were unclear), then you'd be wrong.

No, the difference being two fold: one; proportionately far fewer cars run red lights than cyclists, and two; laws are much easier to enforce against cars that have to display large, identifiable, traceable plates on both sides.

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It wouldn't work at the moment as the technology has not been invented yet for driverless car radar systems. The human element will always remain the same unfortunately. 

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14 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

No, the difference being two fold: one; proportionately far fewer cars run red lights than cyclists, and two; laws are much easier to enforce against cars that have to display large, identifiable, traceable plates on both sides.

Right, it's always funny to highlight your raging hypocrisy.

We can see just how well the laws of the road are enforced against motorists.  Nearly all motorists speed, very few are ever caught.

 

If you'd just said that enforcing a speed limit on the pavement for bikes would be near impossible, well, yes, I agree, like the majority of behaviour on the roads and pavements it would be self regulating.

14 hours ago, Black Brick said:

It wouldn't work at the moment as the technology has not been invented yet for driverless car radar systems. The human element will always remain the same unfortunately. 

Imagine that the technology did exist though, you're on a rural road, 60 mph limit, doing that speed, (there's a pavement), around a bend the radar (or whatever) spots a pedestrian, either you have emergency braking to 30mph, or you've passed them at 50+ before the car can slow significantly anyway...

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10 hours ago, Cyclone said:

Right, it's always funny to highlight your raging hypocrisy.

We can see just how well the laws of the road are enforced against motorists.  Nearly all motorists speed, very few are ever caught.

 

If you'd just said that enforcing a speed limit on the pavement for bikes would be near impossible, well, yes, I agree, like the majority of behaviour on the roads and pavements it would be self regulating.

 

Yes, I am saying that, except that I'm saying it would be even harder, because enforcing laws against cyclists is much more difficult than with motorists.

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It's harder to enforce through any automated means, it's obviously not hard to enforce if a transgression is seen by a constable.  The question as to whether enforcement action would be appropriate might become relevant though.

 

But anyway, like the majority of laws on our roads, they rely on most people obeying them most of the time.

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