People going to work on bikes.

[WiseOwl182 10]

On 24/05/2019 at 07:19, Cyclone said:

You've got confirmation bias.  There are a minority of cyclists who don't stop for red lights, but they're much less dangerous than the motorists who do the same.

I've got confirmation eyesight. It sees more than half of cyclists while I'm driving pass through red lights without a care.

7 hours ago, Cyclone said:

What I find odd about the claims re:cyclists and lights, is that the same people don't apply massive generalisations to motorists in the same way.

On Thursday I watched a car go up a wrong way street the wrong way, in fact, that's two vehicles in 2 weeks, the first actually made an illegal turn into the one way street, the other just ignored a no entry and proceeded up it.

I don't start claiming that all motorists ignore one way restrictions though.

It's about proportions. In a week of driving I see hundreds, possibly thousands of cars approaching traffic lights and may spot 1 or 2 going through a red light. In the same week, I may see ten cyclists approaching red lights and 5+ will run straight through.

[Cyclone 10]

You should video it.  I'm keen to see it.

[WiseOwl182 10]

20 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

You should video it.  I'm keen to see it.

I'd have to invest in a dashcam but as it's for you, Cyclone, I might just do that.

[Cyclone 10]

As a temporary measure you can use a mobile phone with the app autoguard.  Needs a mount that allows it to see out of the car though.

[Voice of reason 0]

On 25/05/2019 at 15:16, WiseOwl182 said:

In the same week, I may see ten cyclists approaching red lights and 5+ will run straight through.

But what is the negative effect of them doing it? Are accidents happening as a result? If cars did it, there'd be carnage. But bikes not.

Also what lights are you talking about? If a bike goes straight on at a crossroads on red, he'd be crushed.

[Cyclone 10]

58 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

But what is the negative effect of them doing it? Are accidents happening as a result? If cars did it, there'd be carnage. But bikes not.

Also what lights are you talking about? If a bike goes straight on at a crossroads on red, he'd be crushed.

Pedestrian crossings would be the most common, and whilst it's not massively dangerous like a car running a light, it's still got some danger to it.

There are other lights that I'm fairly sure I could run (on my bike) with little to no danger, but I still don't.

 

For example;

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4028841,-1.5017407,3a,75y,115.33h,75.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWdtvXGN6bplckZwg2d28Qw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The first set here is fairly pointless when it's not red for the green man (and it's often red but only in 1 direction).

 

This set is often red because someone pushed the button, then crossed immediately and has long gone

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.401972,-1.4997874,3a,75y,115.33h,75.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7SyIamoYEXlR2MCD0cXz2g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

This set is often on red with nothing coming down the hill

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3946845,-1.4889108,3a,75y,118.86h,85.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saPvgUdFaj7xy1uuI-45MIw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

(Despite the claims that most of the lights are triggered by sensors and this shouldn't happen).

 

This set control traffic to a barely used dead end side road, perhaps once in the distance past it was connected to Penistone Road?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3907866,-1.482196,3a,75y,138h,74.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC4aw91WUTI_NNU6w3IueSQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

They routinely go red when there is no traffic on the side road.

 

And that's basically on a single road which I happen to commute on and on which the timing of the lights is such that a bike doing 20 mph gets stopped at nearly every set.  It can be very frustrating.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Cyclone

[WiseOwl182 10]

1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:

But what is the negative effect of them doing it? Are accidents happening as a result? If cars did it, there'd be carnage. But bikes not.

Also what lights are you talking about? If a bike goes straight on at a crossroads on red, he'd be crushed.

We weren't debating negative effects. Some people like to deny the fact that a large proportion of cyclists run red lights, which is what was being debated.

 

If you want to talk about possible effects then yes, they are lower with cyclists running red lights. They do, however, tend to run them at pedestrian crossings which can be fatal for pedestrians in the worst case scenario. Funnily enough, cyclists tend to obey red lights at busy crossroads. Funny that. The thing is, the law is in place and applies to cyclists too. There are many times I stop at a pedestrian crossing when the pedestrian has long since walked off but the light has gone red. I can't pick and choose when to stick to the law, even though I could safely go through on red, so neither should the cyclist.

[Becky B 31]

On 25/05/2019 at 15:16, WiseOwl182 said:

I've got confirmation eyesight. It sees more than half of cyclists while I'm driving pass through red lights without a care.

It's about proportions. In a week of driving I see hundreds, possibly thousands of cars approaching traffic lights and may spot 1 or 2 going through a red light. In the same week, I may see ten cyclists approaching red lights and 5+ will run straight through.

On my commute to/from work, I see cars running red lights every day without fail, often multiple times each journey.

The junction of Neepsend Lane with Penistone Road seems to be a particular hotspot.

 

I don't see any cyclists running red lights on my journey (that's not saying I've never seen cyclists running red lights, mark you).

 

It's about the route I take and the circumstances of the roads and junctions I see on my journey.

[Voice of reason 0]

4 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

We weren't debating negative effects. Some people like to deny the fact that a large proportion of cyclists run red lights, which is what was being debated.

 

If you want to talk about possible effects then yes, they are lower with cyclists running red lights. They do, however, tend to run them at pedestrian crossings which can be fatal for pedestrians in the worst case scenario. Funnily enough, cyclists tend to obey red lights at busy crossroads. Funny that. The thing is, the law is in place and applies to cyclists too. There are many times I stop at a pedestrian crossing when the pedestrian has long since walked off but the light has gone red. I can't pick and choose when to stick to the law, even though I could safely go through on red, so neither should the cyclist.

I look forward to seeing you stood on the pavement at a pedestrian crossing with an empty road, waiting for the green man 😁

[Cyclone 10]

15 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

We weren't debating negative effects. Some people like to deny the fact that a large proportion of cyclists run red lights, which is what was being debated.

 

If you want to talk about possible effects then yes, they are lower with cyclists running red lights. They do, however, tend to run them at pedestrian crossings which can be fatal for pedestrians in the worst case scenario. Funnily enough, cyclists tend to obey red lights at busy crossroads. Funny that. The thing is, the law is in place and applies to cyclists too. There are many times I stop at a pedestrian crossing when the pedestrian has long since walked off but the light has gone red. I can't pick and choose when to stick to the law, even though I could safely go through on red, so neither should the cyclist.

The topic is "People going to work on bikes".  Nothing to do with running red lights.

But as always, lets see the evidence for your assertion rather than just your personal anecdotes, I'm sure there are studies.

11 hours ago, Voice of reason said:

I look forward to seeing you stood on the pavement at a pedestrian crossing with an empty road, waiting for the green man 😁

Pedestrians aren't obliged to wait for any colour, they can cross the road whenever they think it's safe.

[Voice of reason 0]

1 hour ago, Cyclone said:

 

Pedestrians aren't obliged to wait for any colour, they can cross the road whenever they think it's safe.

True.

In Germany they do. If you cross the road there on Red Man, they look at you like you're a madman.

Either way, my general point is, it seems a bit of a storm in a teacup, if there's no negative effect of the claimed light jumping.

[RootsBooster 24]

3 hours ago, Voice of reason said:

True.

In Germany they do. If you cross the road there on Red Man, they look at you like you're a madman.

Either way, my general point is, it seems a bit of a storm in a teacup, if there's no negative effect of the claimed light jumping.

Would you say the same for cars jumping red lights?