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Guest makapaka
4 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Introducing and removing species be, it plant or animal, can and does effect habitats and their ecology.

There are no natural habitats left in England, most of which this is due to human intervention over 2000+

 

With so much of the natural ecology missing, human intervention has always been needed.

The type and amount of intervention is subject to hot debate, very little of it rational, most of it knee jerk and rarely holistic. Economics, environmentalist politics, local politics, short term and incomplete planning and continuity make things harder.

 

Removing an invasive species is sometimes essential and in a few cases a legal requirement due to health or economic damage, sometimes necessary in order to protect a natural habitat, sometimes needed to encourage the reestablishment of a natural habitat.

 

Not removing mink would undermine the ability to re create the natural succession of a habitat.

 

 

 

 

I know all that but we put the mink there.

 

we are the most invasive species to have ever walked the earth - everywhere we have gone has led to the devastation of every existing habitat.

 

what makes you think we are qualified to decide whether it’s right to have minks in the uk?

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27 minutes ago, makapaka said:

I know all that but we put the mink there.

 

we are the most invasive species to have ever walked the earth - everywhere we have gone has led to the devastation of every existing habitat.

 

what makes you think we are qualified to decide whether it’s right to have minks in the uk?

Our actions have led directly and indirectly to  changes in the type, distribution, population and range of most plant and animals in this area.

We will never be able to return to a time in the past but things are and will change anyway.

We can choose between action and inaction, and if we choose action what action will that be and what is the aim?

Selecting inaction will lead to exploitative invasive species competing/predating on other species for decades with a roller coaster cycle of population crashes and explosions. Given the isolated nature of these population recovery of a long term diverse and stable ecosystems is unlikely.

 

Maintaining diverse and healthy populations is efficient and economical if done by mimicking as best we can the ecosystems that once dominated this area. This will allow new populations to establish themselves and better able to adapt to future changes.

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Guest makapaka
Just now, Annie Bynnol said:

 

Our actions have led directly and indirectly to  changes in the type, distribution, population and range of most plant and animals in this area.

We will never be able to return to a time in the past but things are and will change anyway.

We can choose between action and inaction, and if we choose action what action will that be and what is the aim?

Selecting inaction will lead to exploitative invasive species competing/predating on other species for decades with a roller coaster cycle of population crashes and explosions. Given the isolated nature of these population recovery of a long term diverse and stable ecosystems is unlikely.

 

Maintaining diverse and healthy populations is efficient and economical if done by mimicking as best we can the ecosystems that once dominated this area. This will allow new populations to establish themselves and better able to adapt to future changes.

I’d just leave the mink alone. theyre only doing what they were born to do.

what makes you think we’re entitled to interfere with what’s happening in the wild?

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Guest makapaka
9 minutes ago, mickey finn said:

Horrible things.

Why?

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31 minutes ago, makapaka said:

I’d just leave the mink alone. theyre only doing what they were born to do.

what makes you think we’re entitled to interfere with what’s happening in the wild?

As we have already agreed there are no natural habitats left in England, therefore there is no "wild".

Neither is there any possibility of returning to the "wild".

 

But we do have a choice of returning a semblance of "wild" to some areas by limiting and controlling and reversing what we have done. E.g culling hedgehogs on Scottish Islands, allowing feral wallabies to die off in Derbyshire and all the other nasty things we "need" to do. Removing rats, sheep and rabbits from the hills etc.

Edited by Annie Bynnol

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Guest makapaka
3 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

As we have already agreed there are no natural habitats left in England, therefore there is no "wild".

Neither is there any possibility of returning to the "wild".

 

But we do have a choice of returning a semblance of "wild" to some areas by limiting and controlling and reversing what we have done. E.g culling hedgehogs on Scottish Islands, allowing feral wallabies to die off in Derbyshire and all the other nasty things we "need" to do. Removing rats, sheep and rabbits from the hills etc.

So killing off  hedgehogs

killing off wallabies 

killing off rats 

killing off sheep

killing off rabbits 

killing off mink

 

you crack on with your conservation views sounds mint......

 

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6 minutes ago, makapaka said:

So killing off  hedgehogs

killing off wallabies 

killing off rats 

killing off sheep

killing off rabbits 

killing off mink

 

you crack on with your conservation views sounds mint......

 

"...conservation..." and "killing..." are words that I have not used, neither are they practices that would help  promoting naturally evolving habitats and their ecosystem.

   

"...conservation..." is a misused and mostly redundant term when applied to the living environment, it's the kind of activities the National Trust and CPRE get involved in to protect a landscape that existed fleetingly at various times in the past. Both organizations are re evaluating their "conservation" policies

 

A more accurate statement would need to be amended so that:

"...killing off  hedgehogs", should read -introduced hedgehogs already trapped and removed from some sensitive areas.

"killing off  wallabies", should read - already happened in a most cruel way. 

"killing off rats", should read- already done on some islands.

"killing off sheep", should read- introduced species already removed from some locations and prevented from accessing others.

"killing off rabbits", should read-introduced species already culled/removed from some locations.

"killing off mink", should read- introduced species already in progress/planned in some areas.

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Guest makapaka
15 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

"...conservation..." and "killing..." are words that I have not used, neither are they practices that would help  promoting naturally evolving habitats and their ecosystem.

   

"...conservation..." is a misused and mostly redundant term when applied to the living environment, it's the kind of activities the National Trust and CPRE get involved in to protect a landscape that existed fleetingly at various times in the past. Both organizations are re evaluating their "conservation" policies

 

A more accurate statement would need to be amended so that:

"...killing off  hedgehogs", should read -introduced hedgehogs already trapped and removed from some sensitive areas.

"killing off  wallabies", should read - already happened in a most cruel way. 

"killing off rats", should read- already done on some islands.

"killing off sheep", should read- introduced species already removed from some locations and prevented from accessing others.

"killing off rabbits", should read-introduced species already culled/removed from some locations.

"killing off mink", should read- introduced species already in progress/planned in some areas.

I don’t get what “introduced hedgehogs already trapped and removed from some sensitive areas means? Or the rest.

 

We’ve decimated our wildlife in this country.

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40 minutes ago, makapaka said:

I don’t get what “introduced hedgehogs already trapped and removed from some sensitive areas means? Or the rest.

 

We’ve decimated our wildlife in this country.

On some Scottish Islands in the Outer Hebrides, hedgehogs were introduced by residents in  the 1970's to control slugs.

This led to a decline in ground nesting birds as the hedgehogs were eating the eggs.

Stoats were also removed.

Mink have already been eradicated from 4000 sq miles of North East Scotland.

 

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Guest makapaka
8 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

On some Scottish Islands in the Outer Hebrides, hedgehogs were introduced by residents in  the 1970's to control slugs.

This led to a decline in ground nesting birds as the hedgehogs were eating the eggs.

Stoats were also removed.

Mink have already been eradicated from 4000 sq miles of North East Scotland.

 

So humans brought in hedgehogs to kill slugs but the hedgehogs ate the birds eggs so we’re killing the hedgehogs (and stoats)?
 

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3 minutes ago, makapaka said:

So humans brought in hedgehogs to kill slugs but the hedgehogs ate the birds eggs so we’re killing the hedgehogs (and stoats)?
 

Except that you need to replace "killing" with "removed to the mainland".

 

Mink and other invasive species cannot by law be released.

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