Jump to content


LGBT issues and morality

Recommended Posts

On 18/07/2019 at 22:56, Pettytom said:

You can in the case that you raise.

 

It is perfectly possible to support equal rights for LGBT people and freedom of expression for religious groups.

 

The obvious quid pro quo is that you’d also support freedom of expression of those opposed to the bigoted views of the religious people.

 

I’d hope that most people would be comfortable with that.

 

 

You can't say you support their freedom of expression, whilst simultaneously dismissing their view as "bigoted". To answer my question, it seems for conflicted liberals, anti-homophobia trumps religious freedom and multiculturalism.

On 19/07/2019 at 08:25, Cyclone said:

The freedom to express and exercise religious beliefs has (for me at least) always been tempered with the caveat "where it doesn't impact or harm anyone else".  In fact that goes on the end of almost any freedom to do anything.

How is taking their kids out school impacting or harming anyone else? If a religion is fundamentally homophobic but you're against homophobia, how can you support the freedom and expression of it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I understand the mindset of someone who claims to hear voices telling them to kill women but that wouldn’t stop me doing everything in my power to stop them.

Ok so i

To continue that analogy.  You and I are walking through fargate and see such a guy tomorrow.

 

He is shouting and screaming at women.  I say "what a scumbag, society is going downhill.  I blame his parents, the music he listens to etc".

 

Would it not be right for you to say "come on mate, this person has been diagnosed with a mental illness.  I am not justifying what he is saying it doing, but you must understand it is the illness".

 

Because that is what I am doing with the protesters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:
Quote

You can't say you support their freedom of expression, whilst simultaneously dismissing their view as "bigoted". 

You absolutely can. I do.

 

41 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

 

Quote

If a religion is fundamentally homophobic but you're against homophobia, how can you support the freedom and expression of it? 

There's no such thing as a religion that's fundamentally homophobic, but even if there was, I'd still support people's right to express homophobic views.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose deciding what the fundamentals of an ideology is can be open to interpretation.

 

The Abrahamic religions are pretty homophobic though.

 

However I largely agree with you.  It is absolutely possible to support someones right to freedom expression without supporting their views.

 

Not everyone here can grasp that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

I suppose deciding what the fundamentals of an ideology is can be open to interpretation.

 

The Abrahamic religions are pretty homophobic though.

 

However I largely agree with you.  It is absolutely possible to support someones right to freedom expression without supporting their views.

 

Not everyone here can grasp that.

In which case, there should be no problem with these protests, as they're merely exercising that freedom of expression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

In which case, there should be no problem with these protests, as they're merely exercising that freedom of expression.

Wrong. It's entirely possible to support people's right to hold and express religiously inspired homophobic views and simultaneously deplore and condemn those views as wrongheaded and foolish.

 

That's precisely my position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

In which case, there should be no problem with these protests, as they're merely exercising that freedom of expression.

I am more understanding of the protests than most, check the flack I have received from some of the other posters here.

 

My chief complaint with the protests is the location. It can't be nice for the kiddies going to school to witness it.

Just now, Halibut said:

Wrong. It's entirely possible to support people's right to hold and express religiously inspired homophobic views and simultaneously deplore and condemn those views as wrongheaded and foolish.

 

That's precisely my position.

You didn't answer his question/contradict his statement. though. 

 

The statement was "there should be no problem with this protest".

 

Your replied telling them they were wrong and then explaining that the protesters were wrong headed and foolish.

 

This doesn't present a problem with their protest, unless you have a problem with people's right to protest on issues you disagree with them on.  You are arguing against what they are protesting about, not the protest itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WiseOwl182 said:

You can't say you support their freedom of expression, whilst simultaneously dismissing their view as "bigoted".

I understand that you have a preferred answer to your question. I also appreciate that my answer wasn’t the one that you wanted to hear.

 

Unfortunately for you, I’m correct. I can support the freedom of expression of views that I consider to be bigoted. 

 

And I do.

 

You clearly have a problem with people who hold views that conflict with your own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

I am more understanding of the protests than most, check the flack I have received from some of the other posters here.

 

My chief complaint with the protests is the location. It can't be nice for the kiddies going to school to witness it.

You didn't answer his question/contradict his statement. though. 

 

The statement was "there should be no problem with this protest".

 

Your replied telling them they were wrong and then explaining that the protesters were wrong headed and foolish.

 

This doesn't present a problem with their protest, unless you have a problem with people's right to protest on issues you disagree with them on.  You are arguing against what they are protesting about, not the protest itself.

I think the protest does pose problems - it's disruptive and potentially distressing to children and staff at the affected schools.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Eater Sundae said:

Of course they are all likely to have Christian values, having been brought up in a predominantly Christian society and with Christianity as the state religion.

 

The same applies to Conservatives, Liberals (and Lib Dems), UKIP, the Brexit Party etc etc. There’s no specific Christian link to Labour

Yes I'm aware of all that, and I wasn't suggesting Labour had a specific Christian link. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pettytom said:

I understand that you have a preferred answer to your question. I also appreciate that my answer wasn’t the one that you wanted to hear.

 

Unfortunately for you, I’m correct. I can support the freedom of expression of views that I consider to be bigoted. 

 

And I do.

 

You clearly have a problem with people who hold views that conflict with your own.

You don't know my view, but my assertion isn't that you can't support the expression of views you find bigoted, it's the fact that you find them to be bigoted means that you're taking one side over the other. So in this case, your support for freedom of sexuality trumps your support for the freedom of expression of religious views. To argue otherwise is clearly untrue.

3 hours ago, Halibut said:

Wrong. It's entirely possible to support people's right to hold and express religiously inspired homophobic views and simultaneously deplore and condemn those views as wrongheaded and foolish.

 

That's precisely my position.

As above, your support for one side of the juxtaposition clearly outweighs the other.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, WiseOwl182 said:

 

As above, your support for one side of the juxtaposition clearly outweighs the other.

 

What leads you to that conclusion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.