LGBT issues and morality

[Lockjaw 11]

3 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

Agreed.  Especially one that is pro slavery.

 

However, we are massively off track.

 

When debating someone at Sheffield University a few years ago, I stated for the first time that I do not believe homosexuality to be moral at all, but rather amoral. 

 

I had never really considered the moral aspect of homosexuality before, and had claimed, without thinking, that it was moral.

 

What do my fellow sheffielders think?

Define moral.

[JamesR123 0]

A subjective view of right and wrong behaviour.

[Cyclone 10]

1 hour ago, Lockjaw said:

No.

 

Look back at James' original question.

 

He was asking which "Christian values" the Labour Party adopted.  I pointed out that the source of the Christian values was pretty left leaning,

 

Whether the party adopted those values because of Christian influence or by complete coincidence doesn't detract from the fact that they are the same values.

 

I choose to wear black a lot.  This means I have adopted Johhny Cash's dress style.  Doesn't mean he influenced me, though.  No logical issues there.

 

 

So they didn't adopt any Christian values then, Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on left leaning values.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

9 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

A subjective view of right and wrong behaviour.

It is not behaviour, it is a sexual preference. How can it be either right or wrong. It just is what it is.

 

Are blue eyes more right than brown eyes? Is preferring to wear trainers more right than preferring to wearing shoes?

[JamesR123 0]

Just now, Top Cats Hat said:

It is not behaviour, it is a sexual preference. How can it be either right or wrong. It just is what it is.

 

Are blue eyes more right than brown eyes? Is preferring to wear trainers more right than preferring to wearing shoes?

That is a big reason behind me deciding that homosexuality is indeed not moral.

 

It doesn't sit on the moral compass.

 

I tend to prefer brunettes over blondes, this is not a moral thing.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

1 minute ago, JamesR123 said:

That is a big reason behind me deciding that homosexuality is indeed not moral.

Your argument seems to be all over the place.

 

You say that something is not on the moral compass and then say that it is not moral. That makes as much sense as me saying that a ball of wool is not on the Scoville scale of spiciness but I think that it is less hot than a Jalapeño pepper.

[JamesR123 0]

No, nothing that isn't on the moral compass is moral.

 

Are you making the mistake that not moral = immoral?

 

Homosexuality is not moral, nor is it immoral.  It is amoral  

 

Your analogy is poor

[Lockjaw 11]

14 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

So they didn't adopt any Christian values then, Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on left leaning values.

Yes they did.  And no it doesn't.

 

If someone adopts a value which is shared by Christians then it is a Christian value regardless of why they adopt it.

 

I generally help out people in distress when I come across them.  That's a  classic example of a Christian value but that doesn't mean I choose to act that way because it is a Christian value.

 

I think this is another language issue.  I'm not suggesting Christian values are exclusively that.  Any given Christian value can also be a value of any number of other subsections of society.  

 

I'm sure you and I share many Christian values.  The fact we don't adhere to them  because they are Christian values does not stop them from being Christian values.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

37 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

Homosexuality is not moral, nor is it immoral.  It is amoral  

The problem you have now is that if you believe that homosexuality is neither moral nor immoral, how on earth can you also claim that homophobia is not bigotry?

[JamesR123 0]

5 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The problem you have now is that if you believe that homosexuality is neither moral nor immoral, how on earth can you also claim that homophobia is not bigotry?

The two claims aren't linked.

 

Homophobia is  a form of prejudice, as is bigotry.

 

Bigotry tends to refer to ideas (so Islamophobia is bigotry).

[Top Cats Hat 10]

46 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

Bigotry tends to refer to ideas (so Islamophobia is bigotry).

Bigotry doesn’t ‘tend’ to refer to anything. It is a concept. It is applied as a definition. What you actually mean is ‘I use bigotry to refer to ideas’. Even by your own definition, believing that homosexuality is normal and that homosexuals shouldn’t be subject to prejudice is an idea in itself.

 

Trying to win arguments by constantly redefining the terms you are using to make them fit has given you a reputation on this forum for being flaky. 🙄

[JamesR123 0]

I haven't redefined anything 

 

bigotry

/ˈbɪɡətri/

noun

1. intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.

   "the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"

    

    

    

    

   That is the primary definition.

So hating black people isn't bigoted, it is racist.  Hating gays isn't bigoted, it is homophobic.  Hating Muslims is bigoted.

 

 

But tbh, the semantic argument is tiring and kinda irrelevant to the point.