LGBT issues and morality

[Top Cats Hat 10]

3 hours ago, Halibut said:

Home educate them, or find another school.

It’s not quite as simple as that. There are child protection issues here.

 

Apart from anything else, many of these religious groups have form for child sex abuse (Jehovah’s Witnesses, some Seventh Day Adventists, Ultra-Orthadox Jewish Sects just to name a few). Read some of the accounts of former Jehovah’s Witnesses about how damaging being cut off from the real world is. About being constantly told that you are a sinner and are bound for the fires of hell, then being taken by your parents to be abused by the local elder.

 

Any home schooling should be closely supervised and only allowed in very specific cases. So called ‘free schools’ should be abolished and LGBT&Q rights and responsibilities should be taught in every school from an appropriate age. If the parents don’t like it, tough! They are perfectly at liberty to give their children an alternative narrative at home. 

 

The education system should be exactly that. A system to educate, not facilitate the brainwashing of some of our children.

[Mister M 1,625]

3 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

I  have no idea whether normalising homosexuality will increase the propensity to engage in male on male sexual liaisons.

 

I have read no studies, nor have I ever considered it before now.

 

If I were to guess, I would suggest it may do, especially within that community.  I feel that these children being taught that it is both ok and normal to be gay, may well encourage them to act on, rather than suppress, any urges they may have.

 

However, that is just a guess.  Do you have any peer reviewed evidence either way?

 

The thing you keep missing is that the reality is actually irrelevant.  The only thing that matters is what the parent believe, as it is this belief that informs their actions.

The vast majority of gay & lesbians are brought up in heterosexual families. I was.

I think the reality is relevant, modern societies shouldn't kowtow to prejudice, especially when it harms the health and well being of children.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

2 minutes ago, Mister M said:

modern societies shouldn't kowtow to prejudice, especially when it harms the health and well being of children.

Can I just add that this is particularly important at the moment when society seems to be having a bit of a wobble and those espousing greater intolerance, prejudice and hatred seem to be in the ascendency!

[JamesR123 0]

20 minutes ago, Mister M said:

The vast majority of gay & lesbians are brought up in heterosexual families. I was.

I think the reality is relevant, modern societies shouldn't kowtow to prejudice, especially when it harms the health and well being of children.

No one is suggesting modern societies should.

 

I am suggesting that I understand why the parents are protesting.

[Robin-H 11]

6 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

No one is suggesting modern societies should.

 

I am suggesting that I understand why the parents are protesting.

I think we all understand why. 

[Top Cats Hat 10]

9 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

I am suggesting that I understand why the parents are protesting.

You seem to be going further than that and suggesting that we should have some kind of sympathy for their position.

[Mister M 1,625]

2 hours ago, JamesR123 said:

Is it really beyond you to understand why people who are brought up to believe that homosexuality is disgusting and that males who engage in homosexual intercourse face the most vicious and sadistic form of punishment imaginable may have issues with their children being exposed to the homosexual lifestyle at school?

I feel a bit sick re-reading this now.

[*_ash_* 88]

13 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

People are so touchy on here!

 

I didn’t say you were antisemitic. I said that you were using an antisemitic trope to back up a weak argument.

 

That is not the same thing.

I said that [far-left] anti-capitalist / communists etc. don't like jewish people because they are generally successful. What's wrong with that?

 

They don't like successful people full-stop, and almost all anti-semitic caricatures are of rich bankers, rich this and that. That's my experience.  Why do you think they dislike them?

5 hours ago, Halibut said:

Home educate them, or find another school.

Yes, that's what I said in 1st post. They are being home schooled about religion anyway, and if they have no interest in learning about how society is in the real world, then why bother sending them.

1 hour ago, JamesR123 said:

No one is suggesting modern societies should.

 

I am suggesting that I understand why the parents are protesting.

Have you watched it yet btw? I know you said you hadn't yesterday. It's on iPlayer.

[Cyclone 10]

You talk about "normalising" as if it isn't actually normal behaviour.  This is the language that is deliberately used to distinguish homosexuals as somehow not normal or as deviant.

 

The reality isn't irrelevant, if you want to discuss it then to accept the axioms that discriminative arguments are based on is a logical error.  You can point out that these axioms are the basis for the protestors logic without repeating them as a truth.

I can appreciate that you wish to explore the reasoning of the protestors, but you don't have to accept and repeat their arguments as correct in order to do that.

[JamesR123 0]

8 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

You talk about "normalising" as if it isn't actually normal behaviour.  This is the language that is deliberately used to distinguish homosexuals as somehow not normal or as deviant.

 

The reality isn't irrelevant, if you want to discuss it then to accept the axioms that discriminative arguments are based on is a logical error.  You can point out that these axioms are the basis for the protestors logic without repeating them as a truth.

I can appreciate that you wish to explore the reasoning of the protestors, but you don't have to accept and repeat their arguments as correct in order to do that.

I have never said they are correct.  In fact, on multiple occasions I have said they are incorrect in my view.

 

Normal is subjective.  Homosexuality isn't normal to everyone.

1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

You seem to be going further than that and suggesting that we should have some kind of sympathy for their position.

No, I said I understand their position. I am able to understand the views of people culturally different to me.

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

I feel a bit sick re-reading this now.

That's a shame.  I suggest never reading the bible or the Quran though.

Edited July 17, 2019 by JamesR123

[Top Cats Hat 10]

6 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

No, I said I understand their position. I am able to understand the views of people culturally different to me.

Yes but we all understand their position. Is there anyone on here who doesn’t.

[Mister M 1,625]

26 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

I have never said they are correct.  In fact, on multiple occasions I have said they are incorrect in my view.

 

Normal is subjective.  Homosexuality isn't normal to everyone.

No, I said I understand their position. I am able to understand the views of people culturally different to me.

That's a shame.  I suggest never reading the bible or the Quran though.

I've heard the quotations from religious texts with regards to sexual orientation since being a teenager, and since then nothing that has changed my opinion that those who selectively use such texts do so to lend some kind of credibility to their bigotry. Religious texts such as the bible are much more than the sum of their parts. The wider message of the Bible and Quran is lost. That is a gross bastardisation: using sacred texts as a stick to beat someone with is vile. Further, to claim piety on the back of it is sick making hypocrisy.

As for your boast that you are able to understand the views of people culturally different to you. Congratulations, most other people can empathise with others; however I won't empathise with people who refuse to try and meet me half way. Not because they can't - it's that they won't. Your sexual orientation, like mine, is fixed - not that it should matter. Unlike orientation, adults choose their religion, moreover, if they're of average intelligence they should easily be able to realise that they can choose interpret passages in their texts. If they choose to be a bigot, choose to discriminate, seek to subjugate others and believe themselves to be morally superior because of a biological fluke,  then those who claim to understand them are as stupid as they are patronising..

Edited July 17, 2019 by Mister M