LGBT issues and morality

[JamesR123 0]

No gay sex isn't being taught to children.  But something that normalised gay sex is.

 

I have been involved in running (in varying capacities) both Sheffield and Manchester Pride.  The homophobia inherent in Abrahamism is one if the key reasons I am against it.  So please don't think I am agreeing with the parents.

 

I am just aware of the position they are in, and can understand their actions.

Just now, Cyclone said:

The fact is that children are taught ABOUT drugs.  (And in fact dealing them can be legal, Tescos do it, so do Boots).

 

Knowledge is power, and what these religions seek to do is to stop their followers from gaining both.  It shouldn't be allowed or pandered to.

Their children aren't being taught to be homosexual, they are simply being taught about how the world is.  You might as well argue that they shouldn't be taught about evolution.

You misunderstand my position.

 

I am glad that my offspring will be taught about homosexual relationships.  I think it is a wonderful thing for children to be exposed to.

 

I 100% agree with you about what religions do.

 

However, can you not see that these parents, influenced by their religion, do not agree.  They have been brainwashed and their actions are being impacted as a result.

 

I almost feel sorry for their children.

 

And children are being taught about drugs. But not in a way that condones their usage.

[Cyclone 10]

To normalise something I suppose you'd first have to show that it wasn't normal...

 

I can see that they don't agree, yes.  I'm sure there are also many people who don't agree that you shouldn't hit children, but we don't allow it as a society no matter that some people don't agree.

[Mister M 1,609]

7 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

No gay sex isn't being taught to children.  But something that normalised gay sex is.

 

I have been involved in running (in varying capacities) both Sheffield and Manchester Pride.  The homophobia inherent in Abrahamism is one if the key reasons I am against it.  So please don't think I am agreeing with the parents.

 

I am just aware of the position they are in, and can understand their actions.

Not all parents agree with the actions of the protestors, so perhaps it's best all parents, from whatever religion aren't tarred with the same brush. 

Lots of things have normalised gay sex - the media, Parliament and the law, educational institutions, popular culture, people's experiences,  the passing of time....By the logic you're attributing to the protestors, should these subjects not be mentioned in schools as well?

Edited July 17, 2019 by Mister M

[JamesR123 0]

I am not attributing any logic to them.  They have clearly expressed their reasons.

 

I suppose the difference between school and say popular culture is that exposure to popular culture can be limited and controlled.  One of my extended family members is a Christian and didn't let her children watch TV or listen to anything other than gospel music when her children were growing up (they are both late teens now).

 

You can't really do this with school.

 

I imagine that these parents would be very unhappy with TV shows like Will and Grace and would probably not want their children watching the show.

 

 

Again, I don't agree with these people.  I just can understand why they are acting they way they do.

[Mister M 1,609]

3 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

I am not attributing any logic to them.  They have clearly expressed their reasons.

 

I suppose the difference between school and say popular culture is that exposure to popular culture can be limited and controlled.  One of my extended family members is a Christian and didn't let her children watch TV or listen to anything other than gospel music when her children were growing up (they are both late teens now).

 

You can't really do this with school.

 

I imagine that these parents would be very unhappy with TV shows like Will and Grace and would probably not want their children watching the show.

 

 

Again, I don't agree with these people.  I just can understand why they are acting they way they do.

I can't at all, only in the context of the fact that many of the people initially protesting have been manipulated.

[JamesR123 0]

4 minutes ago, Mister M said:

I can't at all, only in the context of the fact that many of the people initially protesting have been manipulated.

Is it really beyond you to understand why people who are brought up to believe that homosexuality is disgusting and that males who engage in homosexual intercourse face the most vicious and sadistic form of punishment imaginable may have issues with their children being exposed to the homosexual lifestyle at school?

[Mister M 1,609]

24 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

Is it really beyond you to understand why people who are brought up to believe that homosexuality is disgusting and that males who engage in homosexual intercourse face the most vicious and sadistic form of punishment imaginable may have issues with their children being exposed to the homosexual lifestyle at school?

No, of course not. But people aren't non thinking automatons. I've said that there are lots of people from all religions that do not agree with each and every chapter of their sacred text, and know full well that such texts were written in a completely different historical epoch. I've also pointed out that religious texts promise hellfire for those who engage in actions, which they do, without question on a daily basis. I've referenced the findings from the appointed mediator, (Nazir Afzal) that many who initially protested are being pressganged by extremists. Yet it's the same scapegoat that's singled out time and again - the pesky homosexual who is othered.

No, I'm not going to look at it 'from their perspective'. As someone who says that they've helped organise Pride marches, don't you think it's about time that things were looked at from the perspective of gay people, especially gay children looking on at these 'demonstrations'? How it impact on them?

Incidentally what homosexual lifestyle are these primary school children being exposed to?

Edited July 17, 2019 by Mister M

[Cyclone 10]

28 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

Is it really beyond you to understand why people who are brought up to believe that homosexuality is disgusting and that males who engage in homosexual intercourse face the most vicious and sadistic form of punishment imaginable may have issues with their children being exposed to the homosexual lifestyle at school?

You're still conflating children learning about the fact that homosexual relationships exist with them being "exposed to the homosexual lifestyle", these are the manipulative tactics used by the homophobes to trigger the protests from the parents.

 

And it should be an express aim of the state through education to challenge such harmful beliefs anyway, so far from listening to these protests, they should double down.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Cyclone

[Mister M 1,609]

1 minute ago, Cyclone said:

You're still conflating children learning about the fact that homosexual relationships exist with them being "exposed to the homosexual lifestyle", these are the manipulative tactics used by the homophobes to trigger the protests from the parents.

Exactly. 

I'm suspicious about someone who makes this basic error, yet has apparently organised Pride marches. Something isn't gelling....

[JamesR123 0]

Wow.  I am not making the error.  They are.

 

Normalisation of something  may well lead to an increase in people doing that thing.

 

And I didn't really organise the marches, in Sheffield I helped organise the stalls (food et al) and their placement.  In Manchester I liased with the council in regards to road closures and impact to the local resident.

[Cyclone 10]

You repeat something as if it's actually happening, that's you making (or continuing to spread) the error isn't it.  You accept that error as the basis for their reasoning without pointing out that it's an error and isn't actually the case at all...

[JamesR123 0]

9 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

You repeat something as if it's actually happening, that's you making (or continuing to spread) the error isn't it.  You accept that error as the basis for their reasoning without pointing out that it's an error and isn't actually the case at all...

I  have no idea whether normalising homosexuality will increase the propensity to engage in male on male sexual liaisons.

 

I have read no studies, nor have I ever considered it before now.

 

If I were to guess, I would suggest it may do, especially within that community.  I feel that these children being taught that it is both ok and normal to be gay, may well encourage them to act on, rather than suppress, any urges they may have.

 

However, that is just a guess.  Do you have any peer reviewed evidence either way?

 

The thing you keep missing is that the reality is actually irrelevant.  The only thing that matters is what the parent believe, as it is this belief that informs their actions.