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4 hours ago, sheffbag said:

Thanks for getting me a warning at work for being late due to your "awareness" antics this morning clogging up the parkway.

 

wonder how many of them drove to it 

Sound like great employers giving you a warning for something completely out of your control.

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6 minutes ago, the fonz said:

All this 'i dont have a choice bleating makes me smile'   you chose where you live you and where you work, you are choosing how dependent you are on car.

 

Protests which disturb the very people who are causing the problem seems sensible to me. 

 

 

Errrm, I think that choice of wording by our fellow poster is very much an attempt of blame. 

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Just now, TimmyR said:

how do you suggest getting people to take onboard the message?  This isn't some loony conspiracy theory.  Its happening.

We all know its happening. Let me ask you a question, which do you think was the most effective in way of getting the message of climate change across

 

A group of school children outside town hall peacefully protesting (despite the SW best intents) 

or

A much smaller group of people disrupting a city centre by illegally obstructing the highway (wonder what would have happened if a driver had got out and attempted a citizens arrest under Article 137 of the Highways Act, would the police have stepped in then? 

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4 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Errrm, I think that choice of wording by our fellow poster is very much an attempt of blame. 

indeed so and I don't agree with that sentiment.

2 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

We all know its happening. Let me ask you a question, which do you think was the most effective in way of getting the message of climate change across

 

A group of school children outside town hall peacefully protesting (despite the SW best intents) 

or

A much smaller group of people disrupting a city centre by illegally obstructing the highway (wonder what would have happened if a driver had got out and attempted a citizens arrest under Article 137 of the Highways Act, would the police have stepped in then? 

I think the first one.  I'm not here to defend ER - with whom I have little involvement currently.  But I am here to say I agree wholeheartedly with what they are doing and that everyone (including me) needs to wake up to the reality of the situation.

Edited by TimmyR

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1 minute ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

heeeeey! 

 

I take it you have verified evidence that car drivers in Sheffield are the root cause of the problem of world wide climate change.   If you dont then you are talking out of you Juke Box. 

why would i have, or need that?

 

You just need to walk past the station to know there is an issue there, if people are happy with that then fine. 

 

You admit something needs to be done but accept that nothing ever is, why not try something different? if it works great, if it doesnt then at least its a topic for discussion. 

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16 minutes ago, TimmyR said:

again this isn't about blame.  This is about awareness.

personally i wouldn't consider taking a job that was 1hr15 mins drive away, no.  This person is not here to defend their reasons but to me it seems a waste of valuable life to sit in a car for 2.5+hrs a day.

You do know how the real world works right.

 

This is not the 1800s.   We dont all live in quaint hamlets with our homes, great works and places of recreation all in a 1 mile radius of us.    This is 2019 the boom of globalisation and mobility,    We are in a recession and are about to endure one of the biggest disruptons in our political history.

 

If you have a career you want to maintain you go where the work is.    Some jobs, just like mine, involve dealing with people all over the country.  I go where my client's are.  I go to where the courts are.

 

PS:   At rush hour 1 1/4 hour drive time is far far less radius than you think it is.     That could be as little as people living in North Sheffield working in Chesterfield or people living in Barnsley working in Central Sheffield.

 

I think you need a reality check.  

Edited by ECCOnoob

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Decades too late to make a change now, everyone is aware, only scarcity of resources and/or cost will see a change, petty protests do nothing other than make those protesting feel like they are being heard / massage their own egos.

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7 minutes ago, TimmyR said:

indeed so and I don't agree with that sentiment.

I think the first one.  I'm not here to defend ER - with whom I have little involvement currently.

 

5 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

You do know how the real world works right.

 

This is not the 1800s.   We dont all live in quaint hamlets with our homes, great works and places of recreation all in a 1 mile radius of us.    This is 2019 the boom of globalisation and mobility,    We are in a recession and are about to endure one of the biggest disruptons in our political history.

 

If you have a career you want to maintain you go where the work is.    Some just, just like mine, involve dealing with people all over the country.  I go where my client's are.  I go to where the courts are.

 

PS:   At rush hour 1 1/4 hour drive time is far far less radius than you think it is.     That could be as little as people living in North Sheffield working in Chesterfield or people living in Barnsley in Central Sheffield.

 

I think you need a reality check.  

For me personally, I don't want to spend my time sat in a car and take that as a significant consideration when choosing where I work and live.  If people understood the severity of climate breakdown better then maybe they too would take that into consideration.  If  the idea that we must live within the boundaries of our planets resources became the common place way of thinking then perhaps society would change and we would no longer all drive everywhere.  I agree with you: currently the car is king and that many people have to drive for work but that could change if the will was there.

Edited by TimmyR

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1 minute ago, the fonz said:

why would i have, or need that?

 

You just need to walk past the station to know there is an issue there, if people are happy with that then fine. 

 

You admit something needs to be done but accept that nothing ever is, why not try something different? if it works great, if it doesnt then at least its a topic for discussion. 

I certainly did not say anything like that. 

 

I said that change is already happening.   I personally have made changes to the vehicle I drive (despite its additional costs).    Change is slow and may be could be done quicker but that's down to governments and organisations, none of whom this stupid event has targetted. 

 

How many more times do I need to get this simple point across.    You may think that attacking the car drivers on their way to work has "raised awareness" to some cause.  Im telling you it hasn't.   Its just annoyed and allienated people against their cause.

Just now, TimmyR said:

 

For me personally, I don't want to spend my time sat in a car and take that as a significant consideration when choosing where I work and live.  If people understood the severity of climate breakdown better then maybe they too would take that into consideration.  If  the idea that we must live within the boundaries of our planets resources became the common place way of thinking then perhaps society would change and we would no longer all drive everywhere.  I agree with you currently that is how society works and that many people have to drive for work but that could change if the will was there.

No that would change if the Jobs were there.  They aren't.    Companies are centralised and flexible/home working for the majority of people is still far from routine.

 

Maybe if this protest was targetted against organisations instead of innocent people driving to work then something could be done about it. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

I certainly did not say anything like that. 

 

I said that change is already happening.   I personally have made changes to the vehicle I drive (despite its additional costs).    Change is slow and may be could be done quicker but that's down to governments and organisations, none of whom this stupid event has targetted. 

 

How many more times do I need to get this simple point across.    You may think that attacking the car drivers on their way to work has "raised awareness" to some cause.  Im telling you it hasn't.   Its just annoyed and allienated people against their cause.

No that would change if the Jobs were there.  They aren't.    Companies are centralised and flexible/home working for the majority of people is still far from routine.

 

Maybe if this protest was targetted against organisations instead of innocent people driving to work then something could be done about it. 

 

 

They aren't yet.   with the right government, cycling to work could be incentivised, homeworking could be made possible for more.    New houses could be carbon neutral.  Infrastructure could be put in place for cycling/better public transport etc.   whatever really.
People may have been made angry but if they are talking about the issues then I think this morning's protest was beneficial.  You don't know how its influenced people, nor do I (other than clearly some are very angry). I can't personally sit here any more and hope that someone else is going to sort all this out.

Edited by TimmyR

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9 minutes ago, TimmyR said:

how do you suggest getting people to take onboard the message?  Climate breakdown isn't some loony conspiracy theory.  Its happening.  I have never been a protester before but the severity of this situation is driving me to do something about it.

 

And the demand to reduce carbon emissions to zero in 6 years is a crazy target, but that is not because ER are crazy it is because successive governments have not done enough to avert the mess we are in now.

 

The different UK governments have progressively lowered the CO2 output by nearly a half since 1990. If you look at it per capita using industrial countries with both larger and smaller populations than the UK for figures from 1990-2016 we have

 

America 20.2 - 15.56 tonnes - 23% reduction

Germany 12.68 - 9.47 tonnes - 23% reduction 

Russia 16.08 - 11.79 tonnes - 26% reduction

Holland 10.80 - 9.61 Tonnes - 11% Reduction

Brazil 1.47 - 2.23 - 71% increase

UK 10.07 - 5.58 tonnes - 45% reduction (the largest by far of the "industrial nations"

 

China 1.97 - 7.45 - 278% INCREASE and now 2 tonnes per person more than the uk which is approx 2.6 BILLION tonnes extra output per year

 

Compare the 2.6 billion tonnes additional output from china to the UK's TOTAL output of 367 million tonnes.

 

the UK's figure of 367 million tonnes is still unacceptable BUT they have reduced the amount by the largest amount out of the "industrialised" countries and it is 12% of China's output. 

 

The governments may have done somethings badly in the last 30 years regardless of who is in power but cutting the UKs carbon gas output isn't one of them.  

 

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11 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

The different UK governments have progressively lowered the CO2 output by nearly a half since 1990. If you look at it per capita using industrial countries with both larger and smaller populations than the UK for figures from 1990-2016 we have

 

America 20.2 - 15.56 tonnes - 23% reduction

Germany 12.68 - 9.47 tonnes - 23% reduction 

Russia 16.08 - 11.79 tonnes - 26% reduction

Holland 10.80 - 9.61 Tonnes - 11% Reduction

Brazil 1.47 - 2.23 - 71% increase

UK 10.07 - 5.58 tonnes - 45% reduction (the largest by far of the "industrial nations"

 

China 1.97 - 7.45 - 278% INCREASE and now 2 tonnes per person more than the uk which is approx 2.6 BILLION tonnes extra output per year

 

Compare the 2.6 billion tonnes additional output from china to the UK's TOTAL output of 367 million tonnes.

 

the UK's figure of 367 million tonnes is still unacceptable BUT they have reduced the amount by the largest amount out of the "industrialised" countries and it is 12% of China's output. 

 

The governments may have done somethings badly in the last 30 years regardless of who is in power but cutting the UKs carbon gas output isn't one of them.  

 

so we should just give up then?  or should we elect a government into power who can assert their influence on the global stage and get china/india and so on to agree to the cuts needed?  Instead of just keeping the rich, rich and repressing the working classes?

Edited by TimmyR

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