Ubuntu 18.04 now worse than M$ Windows

[swarfendor437 14]

19 hours ago, Lastnet IT said:

If you were 'tech savvy' you'd be booting up Windows 10, macOS and some (other) form of *nix.

 

You learn nothing from three flavours of Linux. You're literally better building from scratch than trying three distros.

I've looked at Arch - then ran away! I know you can 'build your own' on a distro web page builder. I've run BSD with Gnome in the past if that is what you mean by building from scratch. You can't build Windows or MacOS from scratch unless you are talking about Darwin with a bit of BSD here etc.

 

14 hours ago, zach said:

Chances are they are OEM. Retail cost a lot more. 

 

Quick question. Why will you be tech savvy by not using Windows come 2020? Genuine question as I don't read up on what's new or coming up with operating systems.

I'm tired of the Windows spyware - as someone once said on a 'nix forum - they knew what was going inside on their machine running 'nix where you don't on proprietary - and GNU/Linux is owned by the user, free to distribute with only the GPL3 licence to enforce that any modifications are notified to the originator of the OS/Software. Nobody owns Windows or MacOS - all they have is a licence to run it. I'm also tired of 'this is what you get - live with it' whereas GNU/Linux offers more customisable interfaces etc.

 

Let's look at it from an accessibility perspective:

1. Windows - free upgrade to 10 if you took the opportunity - I didn't in early days as had read horror stories of applications going west - data intact, but apps gone. Then hearing of other updates, data disappearing never to return. (And on my own experience using Insider Preview after an update I was told that I was running out of one drive space and would need to pay £1.14 a month for additional storage when I had only ever used it to save something to do with work, a text document (but it didn't tell you that it backed up all the game settings to the cloud). So having digressed, a user who needs accessibility software goes down the Windows 10 route which will be included in the price of a computer/notebook - then if they have no sight, they purchase JAWS screen reader at something like £838 pounds or if they need magnification, Zoom Text £690. OK so there is free software screenreaders like NVDA but I don't know of any free magnification software for Windows. But you'll need an i7 processor for the resource hungry Accessible software so prices will be high to purchase kit that isn't going to fall over.

 

2. MacOS - has VoiceOver (very nice and human sounding) and has it's own patented magnification software (something which Elementary OS fell foul of in respect of the dockbar) cost of a 27" imac with i5 processor - £1449 (John Lewis)

 

3. Grey PC £800-£1000 with no OS with i5 processor or AMD equivalent and 8 Gb RAM. Zorin OS from version 12 finally got it right as Gnome Orca (Killer Whale - hence the competition with JAWS!) was written by an employee of the now defunct Sun MicroSystems who had a vision impairment themselves. So ZorinOS gives you: an OS (Core) free of charge (they do ask for a donation but you don't have to pay), it comes with LibreOffice 6 which has had a major facelift and has 3 different styles of layout, including a ribbon for those who prefer it, and lastly Gnome Orca Screenreader and Gnome Magnification - all of which work exceptionally well now that it is based on Ubuntu 18.04. All at no additional cost.

 

Going back to Windows 10 it was frightening to see that when I upgraded notebook at work to Windows 10 a few months back and entered my work credentials it also showed which machines at home had Windows 8.1 Pro I had purchased through work for use by a family member and the two Office Products purchased on other machines too - now that is too much like big brother to me so that you are being monitored 24/7, targeted with products you may be led to believe you need when you didn't want them in the first place. Office being one of them.

[zach 234]

Where to start.

 

Firstly you always seem to quote things like "as someone once said on a 'nix forum" It's a know fact that all OS have their utter fanboys/girls and see it as a life mission to dismiss any other OS as dangerous, snooping etc etc. As far as I'm concerned, they all do data collection in one way or another. As I once said to you, you need to do what you can to limit it. Nothing is free and it never will be, in return data is usually the cash of companies in the world of computing. You can install Linux which you deem to be "safe" then you use the browser that's included. Do you really think that browser doesn't start collecting data?

9 hours ago, swarfendor437 said:

I upgraded notebook at work to Windows 10 a few months back and entered my work credentials

On the above line, you entered credentials...you! If you don't want these credentials being used, you don't enter them...ever! If people are ok giving all their personal information away, the companies will use it. Most of it is general data such as male, in the UK. Age group is xyz etc. The more freely people give their personal data, the more it will be used. I won't argue the fact that companies should be more open about what and how they collect it, but in a real world they won't admit everything.

 

They ALL do it, either via the OS, the "free" software they bundle or both. If you believe Linux to be a safe haven in the world of data collection, you're mistaken. All of us need to tighten down the way and to who we give information. It doesn't matter what OS, PC, phone or tablet you use. Think before you give it out!

 

I'm not sure what your end goal is with the accessibility points 1,2 and 3. I'm classed as disabled and I've always found a free and legal software solution on Windows. There are ones with more whistles and bells that cost a fortune but I'm ok the the free one that doesn't ask for any info. I'm sure there are people that can't find free, or there isn't one. The cost of a system is a bit of a none starter, people will buy or build the best they can afford, or go for the company they are used to. I'm not sure it has any impact on what makes a good or bad system. Or makes a safer one.

 

I feel lucky in that I'll use any OS with an open mind. If I don't like it or it doesn't do things I want, it's deleted. To limit yourself under the assumption that one is the "safe" way to go is a bit narrow minded IMO. That is NOT meant as a dig at you but it might be worth not believing everything you read and find out for yourself. Some will be true, others may not be as sinister as people would like you to believe.

 

 

[swarfendor437 14]

There are other browsers than just the ones that come with the system such as icecat (Free Software Foundation adapted version of Firefox). Another, which I have not tried yet is Water Fox. I don't take things at face value - that's why I got rid of zeitgeist in earlier versions of Zorin, which is no longer present in Zorin 15. I also make sure that I get rid of any Google keys in Certificate/PPA settings in GNU/Linux - All google references gone in Makulu and my favourite search engines are duckduckgo and ixquick - ixguick uses a Google engine but it won't bring back sites that have Google splattered all over it and I know what add-ons to use too to browsers which I can't comment on or mention due to forum rules.

 

https://www.cmpod.net/all-transcripts/history-open-source-free-software-text/

 

https://newint.org/features/web-exclusive/2012/12/05/richard-stallman-interview/

 

https://dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html

Edited May 2, 2019 by swarfendor437

[zach 234]

It was more a general thing about browsers but they are among the biggest collectors of data. I'm sure you're on top of privacy and still leaning, as are we all! It's a game of cat and mouse to a certain degree, they find a loophole, we have to stop it. As we've seen recently in the news, some of the most secure sites in the world get hacked, or should I say "they claim to be secure" Then all the trouble people like us go to protect the information is gone, the data is out in the big wide world.

[swarfendor437 14]

HI zach,

Whilst browsing for something else on YouTube came across these nuggets from a Microsoft Certified Professional:

 

 

 

[zach 234]

I could go and get a few videos to the counter but it's another view of a selected group of people. Your attempt (or his) for it to be justified because he's an MCP is quite sad really. MCP is the base qualification from Microsoft and depending which route you're taking, it can be fairly easy to get. Although a recognised qualification, it is the start point on the Microsoft  exam path. I would take trainees on with an MCP but they would have been required to continue their training and move on to higher qualifications such as MCSA and MCSE.

 

Going by your approach, the MCSEs I took over the years make me more qualified than the bloke in your links to decide for everyone if Windows is better and you should listen to me over him? It doesn't!  It's just an industry recognised qualification. It has no impact on why people should or shouldn't use a product. 

 

I have to be honest mate, the need for some Linux users to always put down other operating systems seems to be an insecurity in their own choice of OS. My opinion of an OS is simple, people should use the one that best suits them.

Edited May 3, 2019 by zach

[swarfendor437 14]

You could also argue on cost too! Just picked up the latest edition of computer active where "Bath and North East Somerset Council are having to fork out £1.47 million replacing 150 PCs and 100 laptops [notebooks] that are "past their recommended useful life." " That's one of the principal reasons the city of Vicenza in Italy has ditched Windows for Zorin - it started with a volunteer who went into a secondary school which didn't have the funds to upgrade their computers - and following on from that the city of Vicenza is now running Zorin for all its services.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by swarfendor437

[zach 234]

If the real price is £1.47 million for what's listed, someone is having their pants down! While they are at it, they should sack their IT department for not doing simple stock management. Any person in charge of an IT department and are doing their job right, would never wait until everything is out of date and do it all in one hit. Plenty of UK schools use linux or mac. The software budget is only a small percentage compared to hardware and depending on their infrastructure and used software, may need to keep with Windows or mac etc in order to keep downtime and staff training to a minimum. I worked in education for a long time and feel free to ask any teacher/teaching assistant what the impact would be if they were given different interactive whiteboard software or another operating system on their class PC. I wish it was as black and white as you think but in the real world it tends to be more complicated than saving a few quid per PC on the operating system.

 

Many factors come into play with large networks, not just finding a few links that fit your way of thinking.

[swarfendor437 14]

Well one also has to argue as a tax payer both locally and nationally, one would expect to see money well spent on services rather than organisational infrastructure - the same article highlights the fact that Microsoft has now doubled the charge to organisations and business to run a copy of Windows 10 from £214,000 to £450,000.  A Zorin member in the states who works for Amazon AWS installed Zorin Lite in a primary school, controlled by a CentOS Server. At the end of the day, a whiteboard is a whiteboard is a whiteboard. And Zorin connect means you don't have to rely on the whiteboard remote.

[zach 234]

12 hours ago, swarfendor437 said:

a whiteboard is a whiteboard is a whiteboard

This bit made me laugh and I really would like a person such as a teacher to explain the finer points of using them to you. Do know know what an interactive whiteboard is and how they work? The main bit the children see looks the same, as in a big screen they read/work from. The nuts and bolts that make them work can be very different.

12 hours ago, swarfendor437 said:

Zorin connect means you don't have to rely on the whiteboard remote

Not sure what you're on about with this bit. 

12 hours ago, swarfendor437 said:

Microsoft has now doubled the charge to organisations and business to run a copy of Windows 10 from £214,000 to £450,000

What does this number represent? There is a vast difference in the the price of Server. CAL and PC licenses. To just post a number like this is meaningless. Are you saying that MS charges £450K for a single copy of 10 pro?

 

12 hours ago, swarfendor437 said:

Well one also has to argue as a tax payer both locally and nationally

Ok, let's look at this bit. We are a Windows run School/Company that decide we are going for the "free" Operating System that is Linux. Can you imagine the cost due to downtime, training and changing the current software either to a new one, or buying the Linux versions? Free isn't a word that comes to mind! Yes it can be done but it certainly won't be free. The cost to tax payers?

 

Just a thought, it might be worth you voicing your opinions and thoughts instead of quoting a bloke from....

 

I have worked in Education and large business and can only pass on what I've seen and done. When it comes to an OS that users were used to, it was mainly Windows and macOS. Linux was tested but never quite did everything required at the time. As I said, you let us know your opinions and likes/dislikes, simply posting quotes from around the net is a bit pointless in our discussion. Or is it a case you just hate Microsoft and Windows and will say or post anything that appears to show how bad they are? If that's the case...fine, Not the best grounds for a discussion but you're entitled to your opinion.

[swarfendor437 14]

Well, today I NEARLY became a Windows 10 convert! But I fixed the problem - yet again - and yes I can see where this will be going! LOL! One thing that GNU/Linux made a huge mistake on (moreover Ubuntu) was the move from ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture) to JACK and then Pulse Audio which gets embedded in the system. So I have had to follow this guide:

 

https://www.howtoinstall.co/en/ubuntu/xenial/pulseaudio?action=remove

 

Then install all things ALSA to get the Sound Blaster Card recognised - as I have said elsewhere, the particular chipset on this motherboard will not play with GNU/Linux - unless of course I have a sound system with optical fibre, as that is the only bit that shows up. The only other thing I had to do was to ensure the SoundBlaster emulation software was setup and then had to re-enable onboard High Definition Audio in order to blacklist again! What is strange is that both the onboard sound and nvidiag graphics card were both showing up as intel chip sets - is that the norm? intel chipsets on nvidia graphics and AMD based motherboards? Bizarre!

 

Going back as to how long and hard it takes, not too long. Where I work I took an Ubuntu disc in as a temporary stop gap as one of the servers had gone down and they setup an ubuntu server temporarily and the comment was they could not believe how easy it was to set up. I can't remember why they could not install Windows Server - whether they were waiting for a new server to replace the faulty one - it was quite a while ago to.

[zach 234]

 

13 hours ago, swarfendor437 said:

Going back as to how long and hard it takes, not too long. Where I work I took an Ubuntu disc in as a temporary stop gap as one of the servers had gone down and they setup an ubuntu server temporarily and the comment was they could not believe how easy it was to set up. I can't remember why they could not install Windows Server - whether they were waiting for a new server to replace the faulty one - it was quite a while ago to.

I see.

 

Well. at least I'll know what to do the next time I have a server down!