Speed Limits

[Annie Bynnol 611]

32 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

And they commissioned a report, which categorically said that there was no reason to lower the limit.

 

Roads do of course have bends, but the Rivelin valley to Ladybower section of the A57 is not particularly twisty or bendy.  It has several long straight sections, isn't narrow, doesn't have an unusually high accident rate and is well maintained.

Who is "they"? DfT, DCC or SCC?

Was the report about the Derbyshire or Sheffield section?

Why have two councils' highway departments responsible for this section come up with the same conclusion? Political?

Was this "report" written before or after 2013? 

There are hundreds of serious accidents and deaths logged on Crashmap.

There are at least 12 sets of corners with multiple chevrons and advanced warnings and many times more "bends".

There are even signs warning of sharp bends for x miles ahead.

You have  identified "several long straight sections" (which  which most often end in wooded glades with repeated warnings for the multiple corners ahead.

The increase in cycling along the route has aggravated the problems.

Being a tourist route it attracts drivers unfamiliar with the sharp bends.

The side roads, farm gates, drives, overhanging woods and access roads.

The Crashmap reports repeatedly indicate hotpots on the dozens of sharp corners and the many high speed head on collisions on the few straights.

Many sections are "narrow" which cause passing HGVs and buses to decelerate rapidly particularly on the dozens of sharp corners.

 

The road attracts the type of driver behaviour were  once the city is left behind feel they need to "open up" on the "open road" and are frustrated by normal traffic.

 

 

[alchresearch 211]

2 hours ago, Cyclone said:

Roads do of course have bends, but the Rivelin valley to Ladybower section of the A57 is not particularly twisty or bendy.  It has several long straight sections, isn't narrow, doesn't have an unusually high accident rate and is well maintained.

But Crashmap shows dozens of crashes on that stretch - mostly slight but around a dozen serious and a couple fatal.

 

https://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search

 

Personally I think lowering the limit has made it more dangerous.  When it was 60 mph you'd get people driving at 40 or 50.

 

Now its a 50 you see people doing 30 or 40 - perhaps they perceive the road as dangerous because of the reduced limit?

 

On Saturday evening I was stuck behind three cars heading over the Snake all doing around 35mph on average, and I had to overtake - increasing the risk.

Edited April 5, 2019 by alchresearch

[Halibut 12]

18 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

On Saturday evening I was stuck behind three cars heading over the Snake all doing around 35mph on average, and I had to overtake - increasing the risk.

You chose to overtake - increasing the risk.

[redbig 10]

22 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

No, to sum it up (again, because you're not the sharpest knife), then if your assertion were true and I was a dangerous driver, then I made the flippant comment that I'd at least be good at it, given I've never caused an accident or clocked up any penalty points. However, the more likely case, and the truth as it happens, is that your assertion is wrong, and that I'm just a careful driver who also happens to disagree with some speed limits.

Look. Just turn top gear off and realise that the limits aren't set to please Mr safe driver (you)

6 hours ago, Cyclone said:

You're now apparently claiming not to understand basic english.

SCC and demonstrably. The mind boggles, just stick to the safe limits 

[willman 10]

Speeding doesn't make you a dangerous driver - i followed  a chap today from Morrisons with the "i have a rear camera sticker" so i already knew he was a pratt(IMO). 25mph in a 30 as it should be, then 25 in a 40 (driving test fail),then in a NSL(60) he drove at 40, driving test fail, at the bottom of the hill he drove at 40 straight past the 30 signage, driving test fail. Yet he apparently thinks the idiot driver is behind him.

[Cyclone 10]

8 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Who is "they"? DfT, DCC or SCC?

Was the report about the Derbyshire or Sheffield section?

Why have two councils' highway departments responsible for this section come up with the same conclusion? Political?

Was this "report" written before or after 2013? 

There are hundreds of serious accidents and deaths logged on Crashmap.

There are at least 12 sets of corners with multiple chevrons and advanced warnings and many times more "bends".

There are even signs warning of sharp bends for x miles ahead.

You have  identified "several long straight sections" (which  which most often end in wooded glades with repeated warnings for the multiple corners ahead.

The increase in cycling along the route has aggravated the problems.

Being a tourist route it attracts drivers unfamiliar with the sharp bends.

The side roads, farm gates, drives, overhanging woods and access roads.

The Crashmap reports repeatedly indicate hotpots on the dozens of sharp corners and the many high speed head on collisions on the few straights.

Many sections are "narrow" which cause passing HGVs and buses to decelerate rapidly particularly on the dozens of sharp corners.

 

The road attracts the type of driver behaviour were  once the city is left behind feel they need to "open up" on the "open road" and are frustrated by normal traffic.

 

 

It was SCC, I said that specifically earlier.  And it was the Sheffield portion, as I have repeatedly also said.

It was written directly before the limit was reduced, I can't tell you exactly when that was.

 

Are we even talking about the same road.  From Rivelin valley to the Ladybower.  NOT the snake pass.

7 hours ago, alchresearch said:

But Crashmap shows dozens of crashes on that stretch - mostly slight but around a dozen serious and a couple fatal.

 

https://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search

 

Personally I think lowering the limit has made it more dangerous.  When it was 60 mph you'd get people driving at 40 or 50.

 

Now its a 50 you see people doing 30 or 40 - perhaps they perceive the road as dangerous because of the reduced limit?

 

On Saturday evening I was stuck behind three cars heading over the Snake all doing around 35mph on average, and I had to overtake - increasing the risk.

Are there more on that section of road than would be expected for the time duration for a rural A road.  Absolute numbers tell us little really.  Above/below the average, that is an important statistic.

 

I agree re: very slow drivers.  You often see people slowing down excessively for corners, to 30 mph or less for no reason.

 

3 hours ago, redbig said:

Look. Just turn top gear off and realise that the limits aren't set to please Mr safe driver (you)

SCC and demonstrably. The mind boggles, just stick to the safe limits 

Sheffield City Council.  That's definitely not "car geek".

And demonstrably, a basic English word, fairly easy to figure out I'd say it sounding very similar to demonstrate...  Definitely not related to cars.

6 hours ago, Halibut said:

You chose to overtake - increasing the risk.

You can't deny that drivers going excessively slowly create a situation where other drivers are likely to overtake, perfectly legitimately.

That being a maneuver beyond driving straight ahead though, it comes with some increased risk, so the slow driver is contributing to an increase in risk for road users by creating the situation that makes other drivers desire to overtake (even if they do so carefully and legally).

 

I had a look at crashmap for the section of road, 2 fatals in whatever duration crashmap shows.

3 serious, plus 3 more specifically at the junction of RVR.

 

Ah, that was only 5 years.  Increase it to 20 years and it's 9 fatals.  Maybe 100 serious.

 

So how does this compare to other similar roads?

Keeping it at the same zoom level and moving over to the parkway, that has more fatal accidents.  And so many serious that it tells me to zoom in more and won't display them.

 

We could play this game for ages, but really we'd need to know the average/year/mile of rural A road to know if that section of road was more or less than average.  But I'm pretty sure that the report that SCC commissioned said it was safer than average.

[WiseOwl182 10]

6 hours ago, redbig said:

Look. Just turn top gear off and realise that the limits aren't set to please Mr safe driver (you)

 

Limits are arbitrarily set and should be open to scrutiny. I will express my opinion on them as part of an online discussion as much as I choose, thanks. It's the whole point of the forum.

Edited April 5, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[redbig 10]

14 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Limits are arbitrarily set and should be open to scrutiny. I will express my opinion on them as part of an online discussion as much as I choose, thanks. It's the whole point of the forum.

Open for scrutiny by folk who know, not someone who thinks they do

18 hours ago, Cyclone said:

Sheffield City Council.  That's definitely not "car geek".

And demonstrably, a basic English word, fairly easy to figure out I'd say it sounding very similar to demonstrate...  Definitely not related to cars

Why complicate it? Just drive the limit, which is set by people with access to the full facts 

[Cyclone 10]

I don't know what facts you think exist beyond the report which recommended not reducing the limit.

[Longcol 592]

On 05/04/2019 at 08:30, Cyclone said:

And they commissioned a report, which categorically said that there was no reason to lower the limit.

 

Roads do of course have bends, but the Rivelin valley to Ladybower section of the A57 is not particularly twisty or bendy.  It has several long straight sections, isn't narrow, doesn't have an unusually high accident rate and is well maintained.

Doesn't the report pre-date the government guidelines issued in 2013 ?

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/63975/circular-01-2013.pdf

 

Section 7.2 onwards gives guidance for single carriageway rural roads and states the 60 limit is "recommended for most high quality strategic A and B roads with few bends, junctions or accesses. "

 

I'd struggle to describe the A57 Rivelin to Ladybower in those terms.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Longcol

[Cyclone 10]

The report and the changing of the speed limit both predate 2013.

[WiseOwl182 10]

10 hours ago, redbig said:

Open for scrutiny by folk who know, not someone who thinks they do

 

I will express my opinion on them as part of an online discussion as much as I choose, thanks. It's the whole point of the forum.