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1 minute ago, Brooker11 said:

I've answered above. I'm guessing your a non driver?

No you haven't - and I've been a driver for over 30 years and have had two fines for speeding in GB and two in France.

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8 minutes ago, Brooker11 said:

At the time of writing there are 24 accredited course operators. That includes three private sector organisations (including AA DriveTech and TTC Group), five police forces (including Lancashire, Merseyside, Humberside, Cheshire and Northamptonshire and 15 local authorities. All of them can generate very substantial profits above the costs incurred in providing the courses. For example, Hertfordshire County Council generated a surplus of £947,000 in 2015/2016 by delivering 1,891 courses attended by 41,641 drivers giving income of £3.7 million (source: Local Transport Today - more information is available on the AMPOW speed-awareness campaign blog). The police and local authorities may well spend some of the surplus from running courses on road safety measures (there is no legal obligation to do so) but private sector operators can simply lose the profits in high salaries and directors fees. 

 

Google should tell you the directors of AA DriveTech who I believe pocketed ÂŁ5m each from the courses in one year.

Nice copy and paste.  

Capitalism works on companies making profits.  The courses are awarded after a tendering  process.  They are mystery shopped and revalidated regularly.  Their whole aim is to refresh, update drivers’ knowledge and bring about driver behavioural change.   Companies make a profit, rooms get hired, trainers get paid, drivers broadly give positive feedback on the courses. 

 

Any original ideas?

What’s  your beef about speed enforcement? - let’s see if we can’t pick your arguments to pieces one by one. 

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12 minutes ago, Longcol said:

And how do they decide on the setting of speed limits - and more to the point - how do they make drivers break the speed limits?

The setting of limits has nothing to do with companies that profit from the courses, if speeding is totally the cause of every accident known to man then ban the drivers, don't give the get out of a course that makes money for private individuals.

2 minutes ago, DT Ralge said:

Nice copy and paste.  

Capitalism works on companies making profits.  The courses are awarded after a tendering  process.  They are mystery shopped and revalidated regularly.  Their whole aim is to refresh, update drivers’ knowledge and bring about driver behavioural change.   Companies make a profit, rooms get hired, trainers get paid, drivers broadly give positive feedback on the courses. 

 

Any original ideas?

What’s  your beef about speed enforcement? - let’s see if we can’t pick your arguments to pieces one by one. 

Obviously its a copy and paste, why not.

 

I've never heard a shred of positive feed back about the courses, most drivers that attend will re-offend they are a racket that do nothing towards road safety.

 

Good to see the brainwashed that I mentioned originally are out in force.

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1 minute ago, Brooker11 said:

The setting of limits has nothing to do with companies that profit from the courses, if speeding is totally the cause of every accident known to man then ban the drivers, don't give the get out of a course that makes money for private individuals.

So what you said in #15 "speed limits will never be increased from the dated levels they are currently set at whilst ever certain individuals are making themselves extremely rich out of them" was totally wrong then.

 

Glad we've got that straight.

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10 minutes ago, Brooker11 said:

Speed limits were set in the early '60, I doubt any other guidelines for machinery that were set nearly 60 years ago still stand.

Not at all, the Parkway’s 40 limit was added in the last 20 years. 

The road into Hillsboro was reduced to 50  10 years (?) ago ...

loads of roads in Derbyshire have been reduced to less than NSL in recent years.  

In 1965, the NSL Sign meant no speed limit. In 1996/7 it became 70, in 1976/7 National Speed Limits were introduced. 

 

In 1966, we saw +/- 8000 road deaths.  

What was the figure in 2017?  I’m sure you’ll know (or be able to google it).

 

6 minutes ago, Brooker11 said:

The setting of limits has nothing to do with companies that profit from the courses, if speeding is totally the cause of every accident known to man then ban the drivers, don't give the get out of a course that makes money for private individuals.

Obviously its a copy and paste, why not.

 

I've never heard a shred of positive feed back about the courses, most drivers that attend will re-offend they are a racket that do nothing towards road safety.

 

Good to see the brainwashed that I mentioned originally are out in force.

Not at all, having been a trainer on such courses, I think I have a more reasoned and intelligent understanding of how well the courses go down.  We didn’t win them all around but ...

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1 minute ago, Longcol said:

So what you said in #15 "speed limits will never be increased from the dated levels they are currently set at whilst ever certain individuals are making themselves extremely rich out of them" was totally wrong then.

 

Glad we've got that straight.

Not at all, you are obviously very. very naive if you think that the people making the dough cannot influence the people making the decisions, do you live in some parallel universe?

4 minutes ago, DT Ralge said:

Not at all, the Parkway’s 40 limit was added in the last 20 years. 

The road into Hillsboro was reduced to 50  10 years (?) ago ...

loads of roads in Derbyshire have been reduced to less than NSL in recent years.  

In 1965, the NSL Sign meant no speed limit. In 1996/7 it became 70, in 1976/7 National Speed Limits were introduced. 

 

In 1966, we saw +/- 8000 road deaths.  

What was the figure in 2017?  I’m sure you’ll know (or be able to google it).

 

Not at all, having been a trainer on such courses, I think I have a more reasoned and intelligent understanding of how well the courses go down.  We didn’t win them all around but ...

A trainer, don't make me laugh, the people on these course are good speakers no more no less, the one and only one I ever attended had a guy chairing it that was an expert at deflection when anyone raised a valid point against what he preached, I will never attend one again and would rather take the points/fine, they are a total and utter nonsense that I'd be ashamed to admit to being involved with.

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2 minutes ago, Brooker11 said:

Not at all, you are obviously very. very naive if you think that the people making the dough cannot influence the people making the decisions, do you live in some parallel universe?

It was you who said "the setting of limits has nothing to do with companies that profit from the courses" a few minutes ago wasn't it?

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1 minute ago, Longcol said:

It was you who said "the setting of limits has nothing to do with companies that profit from the courses" a few minutes ago wasn't it?

Yes 100%, it doesn't mean they don't profit from what is set by others, the point your trying to push makes no sense.

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Just now, Brooker11 said:

Yes 100%, it doesn't mean they don't profit from what is set by others, the point your trying to push makes no sense.

We know they profit from the courses - nobody is denying that. And you've said that setting of the speed limits has nothing to do with the companies they are directors of. I agree.

 

So why your assertation ""speed limits will never be increased from the dated levels they are currently set at whilst ever certain individuals are making themselves extremely rich out of them" is wrong if the companies have nothing to do with the setting of speed limits.

 

And how are they making drivers break speed limits?

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1 minute ago, Longcol said:

We know they profit from the courses - nobody is denying that. And you've said that setting of the speed limits has nothing to do with the companies they are directors of. I agree.

 

So why your assertation ""speed limits will never be increased from the dated levels they are currently set at whilst ever certain individuals are making themselves extremely rich out of them" is wrong if the companies have nothing to do with the setting of speed limits.

 

And how are they making drivers break speed limits?

Its not wrong in the slightest, they have been given the remit to run the courses by the bodies that set the limits, please tell your being naive on purpose.

 

You tell me how the make drivers break the limit, I never said it. I did say the limits do not reflect the technology of modern cars and are totally outdated.

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7 minutes ago, Brooker11 said:

You tell me how the make drivers break the limit, I never said it. I did say the limits do not reflect the technology of modern cars and are totally outdated.

Technology or no technology - it is the driver who governs the speed that the car travels at.

 

When I got done for doing 48mph in a 40 limit it was entirely down to me - given the road in question, the conditions, the level of traffic etc I was perfectly safe - in other conditions 40mph would have been dangerous. I'm quite happy taking responsibility for my own actions.

 

It would appear other people like to put the blame on someone else.

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8 hours ago, Brooker11 said:

Not at all, you are obviously very. very naive if you think that the people making the dough cannot influence the people making the decisions, do you live in some parallel universe?

A trainer, don't make me laugh, the people on these course are good speakers no more no less, the one and only one I ever attended had a guy chairing it that was an expert at deflection when anyone raised a valid point against what he preached, I will never attend one again and would rather take the points/fine, they are a total and utter nonsense that I'd be ashamed to admit to being involved with.

I’m almost out and gone, you are shaping up like a good old-fashioned troll (I prefer “****-stirrer”) and most likely a waste of time and space (but I’ll give you the benefit of doubt)

You appear to set out to write ••••• and wait for others to take the bait.   You offer nothing other than bluster and half-insults and denigration to what could be an intelligent and sensible debate about speed and speed enforcement.  You are either pretending to be provocatively stupid (like newvanandman, tisme ... before you) for your own entertainment or you actually are.  Which is it? 

Expert in deflection?  Do you mean he/she dealt with your question/argument/valid point.  Try one, try them all - as a trainer, I’m keen to answer the usual beefs, I’ve heard them all before (well, I think I have).

You might be surprised by my answers (if you can keep your mind open for a little while) - I don’t consider myself brainwashed and welcome your ideas/questions/valid points. 

Edited by DT Ralge

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