Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

[whiteowl 54]

So 3 and a bit years down the line and as far as I can see the benefits of Brexit are as follows :

 

Brexiteer : Parliament will be sovereign

Parliament acts in a sovereign manner to stop no-deal

Brexiteer : No, no that sort of sovereignty !

 

Brexiteer :  We will have hard border controls

What about the Irish border

Brexiteer : No, no that border !

 

The best reason I've actually heard is a bloke in the pub just after the referendum say he voted for Brexit as he was a plumber and was tired of "European" plumbers coming over and undercutting him. Not the greatest of reasons but at least it was one I could understand.

 

Have I missed any ?

[Lockdoctor 10]

16 minutes ago, whiteowl said:

So 3 and a bit years down the line and as far as I can see the benefits of Brexit are as follows :

 

Brexiteer : Parliament will be sovereign

Parliament acts in a sovereign manner to stop no-deal

Brexiteer : No, no that sort of sovereignty !

 

Brexiteer :  We will have hard border controls

What about the Irish border

Brexiteer : No, no that border !

 

The best reason I've actually heard is a bloke in the pub just after the referendum say he voted for Brexit as he was a plumber and was tired of "European" plumbers coming over and undercutting him. Not the greatest of reasons but at least it was one I could understand.

 

Have I missed any ?

And there lies the problem.  It is irrelevant whether there are any benefits of Brexit.  Our people were given the job by Parliament to decide if our country stayed in the EU or left the EU.   The arguments of whether our country should remain or leave the EU should have ended on 24th June 2016. 

[Longcol 600]

8 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

And there lies the problem.  It is irrelevant whether there are any benefits of Brexit.  Our people were given the job by Parliament to decide if our country stayed in the EU or left the EU.   The arguments of whether our country should remain or leave the EU should have ended on 24th June 2016. 

During the referendum campaign  we were repeatedly told that the EU would be falling over themselves to give us a good deal. No mention of crashing out with no deal.

[tinfoilhat 11]

14 minutes ago, Longcol said:

During the referendum campaign  we were repeatedly told that the EU would be falling over themselves to give us a good deal. No mention of crashing out with no deal.

Boris, Gove, Davis were all unequivocal on this - we'd get a deal. A great deal!

[Mister Gee 823]

10 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Boris, Gove, Davis were all unequivocal on this - we'd get a deal. A great deal!

Spot on. 

'I will be advocating Vote Leave because I want a better deal for the people of this country, to save them money and to take control.' Boris Johnson, Feb 2016

 

Hows it growing de Pfeffel?

 

One of my favorites.

 

‘Trade relations with the EU could be sorted out in 'an afternoon over a cup of coffee,' Gerard Batten, UKIP Brexit spokesman, February 2017

Edited August 24, 2019 by Mister Gee

[andyofborg 11]

1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said:

You can't seriously deny that the aim of those MPs  who seek to take no-deal off the table is for our country to remain in the EU which is against the democratic wishes of our people who voted to leave the EU in the 2016 EU referendum.  The MPs have had three chances to take  no-deal of the table and on each occasion a majority of MPs have voted against the Withdrawal Agreement supported by Theresa May.  

Some probaly do want to remain in the EU. Some either want to or are resigned to the UK leaving the EU but understand that leaving without a deal would be a major long term risk to the UKs economy and preventing such a no deal is far more important that whether or not we leave. 

 

People voted for or against the withdrawal agreement for all sorts of reasons. Some from an ideological perspective (however right or wrong that perspective reason is) and some for personal reasons in order to embarass the government or attract the attention of the leader of the next one, and some for the pragmatic reason that this was the only deal in town. 

 

You can't argue a 1-1 alignment with a desire to avoid a no-deal (or indeed to force a no deal) with how the MP voted on the deal. Indeed, the numbers voting for the deal increased each time the question was asked,

 

There has been one opportunity to explicity vote against no deal and that was passed by a majority of 321 to 278

 

What is clear is that while there is a majority in Parliament against a no deal exit, there isn't a majority for what that deal should be, and ultimately this is the problem.  

 

The wider population is as split as Parliament on this so a further referendum with a range of alternatives or a general election (and a single issue general election is a bigger threat to democracy than anything else)  are unlikely to resolve this.

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by andyofborg

[Top Cats Hat 10]

57 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Our people were given the job by Parliament to decide if our country stayed in the EU or left the EU.   

That’s where you are wrong. The people weren't given the job of deciding. Only Parliament can do that.

 

The people were asked for their advice on the matter in an  ‘advisory’ referendum As the outcome was inconclusive, the government were left with the casting vote and decided to go with the option which received marginally more votes. As this option did not represent the majority of citizens or even a majority of the electorate it was an act of sheer cowardice of the government to go with the wishes of those shouting the loudest rather than the majority.

 

The referendum is not, and never has been a legitimate democratic, political or moral reason for leaving the EU. That’s why I have never supported a second referendum. All it takes is for a government to put the interests of the country first and sack off the whole silly idea.

[ANGELFIRE1 10]

15 hours ago, Dardandec said:

Absolutely, we do it on purpose to wind you leavers up, the country and the union  getting flushed down the pan? we don't really care about that, we do it to wind you up.

He he, you remoaners lack the brain power to wind up a clockwork toy, never mind the17.5 million leavers. Just stick to your anti-British stance, so we leavers can have a good laugh at you insane ramblings. God I love this forum and its resident clowns.

 

Angel1.

[Lockdoctor 10]

1 hour ago, Longcol said:

During the referendum campaign  we were repeatedly told that the EU would be falling over themselves to give us a good deal. No mention of crashing out with no deal.

Only fully grown adults were allowed to vote in the 2016 democratic EU referendum. Both the remain and leave camps ran biased campaigns. Adults should be capable of deciding for themselves which box to tick on a ballot paper after listening to all the argument from all sides in an election campaign.  The reason I voted to remain in the EU because I hadn't been convinced that our country would be any better off after leaving the EU. It is because I am an adult and respect democracy that I now support our country leaving the EU because that is what the majority chose for whatever reasons.

 

1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said:

Boris, Gove, Davis were all unequivocal on this - we'd get a deal. A great deal!

There is no doubt the leave campaign didn't foresee the sheer hostility towards the democratic decision our people made to leave the EU. If our country had united behind the democratic choice then that would have sent a strong message to the EU.  Michel Barnier has recently revealed at no time did Theresa May tell the EU she was prepared to walk away without a deal. The first rule in any negotiation process is to be prepared to walk away from a bad deal in order to obtain a good deal. The negotiations were not helped by Oliver Robbins an un elected pro-EU civil servant who was batting for the EU rather than his own country during the Brexit negotiations.

 

Neither Boris, Gove or Davis are to blame for the bad deal which Parliament rejected three times that was negotiated by Theresa May and Oliver Robbins.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

That’s where you are wrong. The people weren't given the job of deciding. Only Parliament can do that.

 

The people were asked for their advice on the matter in an  ‘advisory’ referendum As the outcome was inconclusive, the government were left with the casting vote and decided to go with the option which received marginally more votes. As this option did not represent the majority of citizens or even a majority of the electorate it was an act of sheer cowardice of the government to go with the wishes of those shouting the loudest rather than the majority.

 

The referendum is not, and never has been a legitimate democratic, political or moral reason for leaving the EU. That’s why I have never supported a second referendum. All it takes is for a government to put the interests of the country first and sack off the whole silly idea.

How many times do you need to be told that Parliament accepted the advice our democratic people gave them and  passed legislation to make it law that our country will leave the EU with or without a deal?

[Longcol 600]

5 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

 

There is no doubt the leave campaign didn't foresee the sheer hostility towards the democratic decision our people made to leave the EU. If our country had united behind the democratic choice then that would have sent a strong message to the EU.  Michel Barnier has recently revealed at no time did Theresa May tell the EU she was prepared to walk away without a deal. The first rule in any negotiation process is to be prepared to walk away from a bad deal in order to obtain a good deal.

The leave campaign never thought they'd win so they made all sorts of crazy promises they were unable to keep. Why should people have "united" behind a decision to potentially make themselves much worse off?

 

And how many deals have you negotiated? We're walking away from a deal that is better than no deal -May's deal was at least realistic unlike the cake and eat it deals with added unicorns sold to Brexit voters.

[ads36 217]

It seems we've more-or-less completely moved onto the 'who can we blame?' phase...

 

And of course, the answer is : all those people who said it was a bad idea in the first place.

[Longcol 600]

Just now, ads36 said:

It seems we've more-or-less completely moved onto the 'who can we blame?' phase...

 

And of course, the answer is : all those people who said it was a bad idea in the first place.

And don't forget johnny foreigner.