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Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

mort

 Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute. 

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4 hours ago, Baron99 said:

So now Jeremy Corbyn is urging the UK`s most senior civil servant, Cabinet Sec., Sir Mark Sedwill to intervene in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit during an election campaign, caliing such a move an "Anti democratic abuse of power." 

 

Hypocrisy of the highest order.  What's anti democratic is the likes of Corbyn totally ignoring the result & the wishes of the people in the largest DEMOCRATIC vote the UK has ever seen. 

 

If Brexit fails to take place, I never want to hear any politician bragging that the UK Parliament is the "Mother of all Parliaments", a shining example of democracy to the rest of the world & its MP's are the humble servants of the UK electorate. 

Hang a sec' here: Corbyn, official leader of the official opposition party, does virtually nothing in or through Parliament, to prevent or hinder the various Tory factions from pushing each flavour of Brexit for the past 3 years (and even goes so far as to whips his MPs to vote with the Tories on certain Brexit-progressing legislation)...and that's somehow "totally ignoring the result & the wishes of the people in the largest DEMOCRATIC vote the UK has ever seen"? Do you realise how daft your claim sounds?

 

As for the HoC being that "shining example of democracy to the rest of the world", you should read some news from that rest of the world sometime (a compendium was linked in here not long ago, yoy can just go back a few pages). It had lost all of that shine, and more, by March 2019. It's lost still more since then.

 

MP's are not the "humble servants of the UK electorate", by the way: they are their respective electorate's representative, not their respective electorate's delegate. You might wish to investigate the difference, and really you should spend a little time familiarising yourself with your own country's constitutional law and principles.

 

I realise it takes some effort to research and understand facts, relative to parrotting dogwhistles and other absurd/misleading oversimplifications. But your life really would be the better for it.

 

Edited by L00b

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3 hours ago, Baron99 said:

So now Jeremy Corbyn is urging the UK`s most senior civil servant, Cabinet Sec., Sir Mark Sedwill to intervene in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit during an election campaign, caliing such a move an "Anti democratic abuse of power." 

 

Hypocrisy of the highest order.  What's anti democratic is the likes of Corbyn totally ignoring the result & the wishes of the people in the largest DEMOCRATIC vote the UK has ever seen. 

 

If Brexit fails to take place, I never want to hear any politician bragging that the UK Parliament is the "Mother of all Parliaments", a shining example of democracy to the rest of the world & its MP's are the humble servants of the UK electorate. 

I’m getting sick and tired of Brexiters picking and choosing the version of democracy that suits them.

 

The nation voted narrowly for Brexit in the referendum, parliament is simply doing its job, holding that decision up to scrutiny.  The hardline Brexiters who have hijacked the agenda  are to blame for the fact that we haven’t left yet. Don’t blame Corbyn for that, blame the ERG.

 

If we are truly democratic, the wishes of all the people  should be reflected in the Brexit that we agree on. That is quite clearly a very soft Brexit, with close economic ties to the EU.

 

That would truly reflect the referendum result and the “will of the people”. Johnson and his Eton chums disregarding Parliament won’t produce that and will only represent the true “elite” in our society.

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Corbyn voted for Article 50.

 

How on earth can anyone claim that he rejected the referendum vote? 🙄

Edited by Top Cats Hat

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Are Brexiteers entirely stupid or just wilfully ignorant?

They won't shut up about 'respecting democracy' but if they can find some loophole to pass Brexit without a democratic vote in the house of commons they're all for it.

 

Lets not forget Parliament has voted several times against a no deal, but since they were not legally binding votes they don't count.

However the non-legally binding referendum vote, that definitely counts.

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7 minutes ago, geared said:

Are Brexiteers entirely stupid or just wilfully ignorant?

Both!

 

7 minutes ago, geared said:

They won't shut up about 'respecting democracy' but if they can find some loophole to pass Brexit without a democratic vote in the house of commons they're all for it.

 

Lets not forget Parliament has voted several times against a no deal, but since they were not legally binding votes they don't count.

However the non-legally binding referendum vote, that definitely counts.

Indeed, and the "will of the people" guff, I mean... if it's really the will of the people, how come (approx) two thirds of the "people" didn't vote for it? :suspect:

 

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5 minutes ago, Magilla said:

Indeed, and the "will of the people" guff, I mean... if it's really the will of the people, how come (approx) two thirds of the "people" didn't vote for it? :suspect:

And of course, only 25% of the population and 36% of the electorate did vote for it.

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2 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

And of course, only 25% of the population and 36% of the electorate did vote for it.

As soon as you hear it, you can be assured the person saying it is either a liar or a simpleton.

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On 15/03/2019 at 17:10, Penistone999 said:

The positive for me is we are leaving . That is a positive,  simple as that.

That's a completely pathetic attempt to defend the indefensible. No logic, no reason. Well done you.

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1 hour ago, geared said:

Are Brexiteers entirely stupid or just wilfully ignorant?

They won't shut up about 'respecting democracy' but if they can find some loophole to pass Brexit without a democratic vote in the house of commons they're all for it.

 

Lets not forget Parliament has voted several times against a no deal, but since they were not legally binding votes they don't count.

However the non-legally binding referendum vote, that definitely counts.

Depends which Brexiteers you're asking about.

 

Those in charge are neither stupid nor wilfully ignorant: they're self-interested and, in some cases that we known of, like Farage and Rees-Mogg, also self-invested.

 

For the rest of the Brexiteers, it doesn't matter what they are. Only their number and vocality count, for neutralising the remain side/efforts and cowing the undecideds.

 

Your political system has shown itself gravely unfit for purpose, out of this crisis. The Brexiteers' capacity to continue exploiting it for their own ends, notwithstanding their minority count in the HoC, simply proves it. I'll grant you that Corbyn's leadership and de facto uselesness as political opposition has been material to some extent, but that is still more a symptom of systemic failure, than a cause: a cohesive political opposition to the Tories would have minced them long ago.

 

So talks of votes in Parliament, binding or not, are pretty much redundant at this 11th hour stage of Brexit proceedings. Talks of "democratic mandate" for Brexit (and any particular flavour of it) and propagandists variants like "will of the people" always were populist expedients fed to the easily-led...

 

...which, in the UK, is a lot of people indeed. You can blame media and educational deficit (at least as much in a "world knowledge" sense, than in a "book knowledge" sense).

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Starting to see more and more of this sort of thing on various forums I visit:

 

"I voted Leave in 2016 but bitterly regret doing so. I too want to apologise to Remain voters. I had no idea our votes would be hijacked by right wing loonies to spout racist bile and to a path of a catastrophic no deal Brexit. This isn’t what we voted for. We expected to leave but stay in a close relationship with the EU through a beneficial deal"

 

At least some leavers aren't complete cowards.

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You've got to laugh at the unemployed remoaners, having a go at somebody who doesn't spend all day on forums.

Perhaps he's got family, friends and a job, and hasn't got too much time on his hands for making up fairy tales.

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