Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

[Top Cats Hat 10]

55 minutes ago, apelike said:

No what I think is there is no proof about how much it influenced people especially give the demographics of Facebook etc. It didn't influence me as I'm not on any social media site.

Yes, but politically you lean to the right and almost certainly would have voted to leave anyway.

 

What fake news on facebook did very successfully was to target apolitical people in the large 25-35 'undecided' age group and bombard them with either very simple images like the 'Turkey is about to join the EU' series of graphics, or repeated links to dog-whistle media headlines about immigration, sovereignty or sentimental nonsense about blue passports or a return to a 1950s all-white Britain that their only experience of was television programmes like Heartbeat, Call the Midwife and The Darling Buds of May.

 

I say 'successfully' because every day I come across people who still repeat fake pro-Brexit news, months and even years after it has been shown to be untrue. Not only did it influence people but it influenced the right people, ie the 'undecided' who determine the result of all elections.

 

[JFKvsNixon 11]

55 minutes ago, Hots on said:

The EU has been systematically asset stripping the UK for decades by getting British industry to leave the UK and relocate, mostly to other EU member states with the help of EU grants.

 

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant,  Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.

Crown Closures, Bournemout gone to Poland with EU grant.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you consider how easily you've been taken in by a such  simple piece of propaganda, does it lead you to question what other opinions may have also been formed by propaganda?

[I1L2T3 10]

37 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Yes, but politically you lean to the right and almost certainly would have voted to leave anyway.

 

What fake news on facebook did very successfully was to target apolitical people in the large 25-35 'undecided' age group and bombard them with either very simple images like the 'Turkey is about to join the EU' series of graphics, or repeated links to dog-whistle media headlines about immigration, sovereignty or sentimental nonsense about blue passports or a return to a 1950s all-white Britain that their only experience of was television programmes like Heartbeat, Call the Midwife and The Darling Buds of May.

 

I say 'successfully' because every day I come across people who still repeat fake pro-Brexit news, months and even years after it has been shown to be untrue. Not only did it influence people but it influenced the right people, ie the 'undecided' who determine the result of all elections.

 

I see this every time I discuss Brexit with leave voters. family, friends etc...

 

They are utterly welded to and invested in a set of myths that have been debunked dozens of times on this forum.

 

Its scary.

[apelike 10]

4 hours ago, L00b said:

Except for the small -and entirely logical- bit, that articles about job losses not directly or indirectly attributable to Brexit are not included in the data.

Sorry to burst that bubble.. Here is what I have found out from that list so far.

 

Body Shop = 20 jobs lost. Its distribution centre in the UK is to lose 20 jobs because it is opening another distribution centre in Germany.

Infiniti = 250 jobs lost. Around 250 jobs are in jeopardy but so far are not lost. 

Primark = 220 jobs lost. Its relocating some jobs. The retailer made no reference or mention whether Brexit had anything to do with the decision to redeploy some staff to its other operation in Dublin. It said the changes were part of an ongoing review of its operations.

LK Bennett = 500 jobs lost. The failure is the latest in a string of mid-market women's fashion labels to buckle under the pressure of dwindling high street sales. Nothing to do with brexix but retail sales in general.

Vision Gelpack = 50 jobs lost. Went into administration once before despite investment, and nothing to do with brexit.

Nissan = 400 jobs lost. But those 400 jobs are so far only reported as at risk.

Notingham City Council = 27 jobs lost. Due to what it classes as austerity measures.

Superdry = 200 jobs lost. Blaming poor weather and foreign exchange costs and another retailer suffering from a drop in sales. Wow, a bit of a brexit hit on that one.

Clarks = 45 jobs lost.  Not due to brexit but a restructuring move after moving its main Cumbria factory to east Asia in 2005. Like Dyson and others its goods are cheaper to produce in Asia.

Walsall Council = 800 jobs lost. Not sure where that stat comes from but it seem to be a mixture of lost council jobs across the West Midlands mainly due to discipline: poor attendance, misconduct, health issues, absence and other issues not related to austerity or brexit.

 

Now, I'm not going through the rest as I'm sure its a bit like the top 10 which clearly seems to show  that the stats used and the way they have been used are very dubious, and so it seems is its author. 

[Top Cats Hat 10]

2 hours ago, apelike said:

Basically you and others cannot prove how it affected voting habits in the UK. Isn't that 33% also  US data?

No 33% is deffo UK. In the US it is higher (unsurprisingly!).

 

Nearer to 50% of americans believe in fake news. 😵

[L00b 441]

45 minutes ago, apelike said:

Sorry to burst that bubble.. Here is what I have found out from that list so far.

 

Body Shop = 20 jobs lost. Its distribution centre in the UK is to lose 20 jobs because it is opening another distribution centre in Germany.

Infiniti = 250 jobs lost. Around 250 jobs are in jeopardy but so far are not lost. 

Primark = 220 jobs lost. Its relocating some jobs. The retailer made no reference or mention whether Brexit had anything to do with the decision to redeploy some staff to its other operation in Dublin. It said the changes were part of an ongoing review of its operations.

LK Bennett = 500 jobs lost. The failure is the latest in a string of mid-market women's fashion labels to buckle under the pressure of dwindling high street sales. Nothing to do with brexix but retail sales in general.

Vision Gelpack = 50 jobs lost. Went into administration once before despite investment, and nothing to do with brexit.

Nissan = 400 jobs lost. But those 400 jobs are so far only reported as at risk.

Notingham City Council = 27 jobs lost. Due to what it classes as austerity measures.

Superdry = 200 jobs lost. Blaming poor weather and foreign exchange costs and another retailer suffering from a drop in sales. Wow, a bit of a brexit hit on that one.

Clarks = 45 jobs lost.  Not due to brexit but a restructuring move after moving its main Cumbria factory to east Asia in 2005. Like Dyson and others its goods are cheaper to produce in Asia.

Walsall Council = 800 jobs lost. Not sure where that stat comes from but it seem to be a mixture of lost council jobs across the West Midlands mainly due to discipline: poor attendance, misconduct, health issues, absence and other issues not related to austerity or brexit.

 

Now, I'm not going through the rest as I'm sure its a bit like the top 10 which clearly seems to show  that the stats used and the way they have been used are very dubious, and so it seems is its author. 

First mentioned in your list, Body Shop. Source article. Extracts:

 

A worker for Body Shop told Metro.co.uk: ‘There are a lot of worried people in the company right now. They have already moved the warehouse operations to Frankfurt, Germany and head office employees are going through another round of redundancies.

‘They are doing this because of Brexit but are trying to keep the scale of it all quiet. The Body Shop might have been founded in Britain but it is no longer a British owned company so it can move wherever it likes.’

 

Confirming the job losses a company spokesman said: ‘The continued uncertainty about the impact of Brexit requires us to be proactive in managing every aspect of our business to meet our customers’ needs. ‘The Body Shop is opening a new distribution centre in, Frankfurt, Germany. The distribution centre, our first in Continental Europe, will contribute to improving the quality of our service across all channels we operate in.’ He added: ‘In terms of the impact on the distribution centre in Littlehampton, the changes will result in approximately 20 roles being made redundant.

 

But nothing to do with Brexit you say?

 

Vision Gelpack. Source article. Extracts:

 

Gelpack said nothing last week but has now issued a statement through Mr Farncombe.

“The decision to put the company in administration mirrors harsh realities to do with future prospects that have been affected by the uncertainty surrounding the Brexit process,” he told the Visonscape website.

 

"The reason it failed was that Visionscape did not really support the business coming towards the end of last year when they were continually running out materials," said the former worker who did not wish to be named.

"This created the problem of lines being stopped or changing to other jobs. VisionGelpack could not secure finances needed to buy the materials as they were, in a sense, a new business so they could not secure enough credit, and were having to pay for most things upfront."

 

In 2017, Gelpack Excelsior was bought out of administration by the Visionscape Group who acquired the assets of the former company.

 

But nothing to do with Brexit you say?

 

You might not remember what investment and funding was like for SMEs in 2017 , but I certainly do: I was still in the UK, and seeing local start-up clients go to the wall one after the other through investment starvation. I posted about it in the Brexit thread of the day.

 

Investment dropped off the proverbial cliff across the UK after the referendum in 2016, and hasn't picked back since. Positively tons of evidence about that from official and journalistic sources.

 

Whatever the UK does in the next month, and whatever new post-membership or renewed-membership life awaits the UK when all is said and eventually done about its exiting or remaining process itself: it will be re-joining the global economic competition after 3+ years' worth of investment penalty pit-stopping.

 

Don't bother with the rest of the list, as you say.

Edited March 18, 2019 by L00b

[apelike 10]

14 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

No 33% is deffo UK. In the US it is higher (unsurprisingly!).

I see, so where does your 33% figure come from as all I can seem to find are reports that people have admitted to seeing fake news but nothing about them believing it. The 33% one I can find is this one from BuzzFeedNews about the USA election.. "Of the people surveyed, nearly 33% recalled seeing at least one of a selection of fake news headlines from the election."

[Top Cats Hat 10]

3 minutes ago, apelike said:

I see, so where does your 33% figure come from as all I can seem to find are reports that people have admitted to seeing fake news but nothing about them believing it. 

It was either youGov or IPSOSMori.

 

If I've got time I'll dig out a link later.

[apelike 10]

23 minutes ago, L00b said:

First mentioned in your list, Body Shop. Source article. Extracts:

 

A worker for Body Shop told Metro.co.uk: ‘There are a lot of worried people in the company right now. They have already moved the warehouse operations to Frankfurt, Germany and head office employees are going through another round of redundancies.

‘They are doing this because of Brexit but are trying to keep the scale of it all quiet. The Body Shop might have been founded in Britain but it is no longer a British owned company so it can move wherever it likes.’

 

Confirming the job losses a company spokesman said: ‘The continued uncertainty about the impact of Brexit requires us to be proactive in managing every aspect of our business to meet our customers’ needs. ‘The Body Shop is opening a new distribution centre in, Frankfurt, Germany. The distribution centre, our first in Continental Europe, will contribute to improving the quality of our service across all channels we operate in.’ He added: ‘In terms of the impact on the distribution centre in Littlehampton, the changes will result in approximately 20 roles being made redundant.

 

But nothing to do with Brexit you say?

 

Vision Gelpack. Source article. Extracts:

1/10 so far and only 20 jobs out of the 2485 so far stated as being lost.

 

Quote

 

Gelpack said nothing last week but has now issued a statement through Mr Farncombe.

“The decision to put the company in administration mirrors harsh realities to do with future prospects that have been affected by the uncertainty surrounding the Brexit process,” he told the Visonscape website.

 

"The reason it failed was that Visionscape did not really support the business coming towards the end of last year when they were continually running out materials," said the former worker who did not wish to be named.

"This created the problem of lines being stopped or changing to other jobs. VisionGelpack could not secure finances needed to buy the materials as they were, in a sense, a new business so they could not secure enough credit, and were having to pay for most things upfront."

 

In 2017, Gelpack Excelsior was bought out of administration by the Visionscape Group who acquired the assets of the former company.

 

But nothing to do with Brexit you say?

I notice you conveniently miss out this bit in the above:

 

"One of the significant factors in the decision is also the recent directive by the EU that has introduced restrictions on single-use plastic products by 2021." 

 

And this:

 

"However, one former employee claims the decision to place the company into administration had little to do with Brexit. "The reason it failed was that Visionscape did not really support the business coming towards the end of last year when they were continually running out materials," said the former worker who did not wish to be named."

 

"218.000 jobs directly or indirectly attributable to the handling of the Brexit vote to date" you said so maybe I will now take time to dismember that data after all.. 

 

13 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

It was either youGov or IPSOSMori.

 

If I've got time I'll dig out a link later.

So basically another dodgy poll.

Edited March 18, 2019 by apelike

[L00b 441]

8 minutes ago, apelike said:

1/10 so far and only 20 jobs.

 

I notice you conveniently miss out this bit in the above:

 

"One of the significant factors in the decision is also the recent directive by the EU that has introduced restrictions on single-use plastic products by 2021." 

 

And this:

 

"However, one former employee claims the decision to place the company into administration had little to do with Brexit. "The reason it failed was that Visionscape did not really support the business coming towards the end of last year when they were continually running out materials," said the former worker who did not wish to be named."

 

"218.000 jobs directly or indirectly attributable to the handling of the Brexit vote to date" you said so maybe I will now take time to dismember that data after all.. 

 

So basically another dodgy poll.

You did not even see that I'd quoted the bit told by the employee about under-investment, which you then accused me of leaving out and re-quoted. Then, and of course, you completely glossed over the significance of the uncertainty caused by the government's handling of Brexit, to that under-investment which is pervading every last nook and cranny of the British economy.

 

Have your cheap imaginary points and your LOLs, I'm not interested in wasting more time with you.

Edited March 18, 2019 by L00b

[apelike 10]

14 minutes ago, L00b said:

You did not even see that I'd quoted the bit told by the employee about under-investment, which you then accused me of leaving out and re-quoted.

I saw it but you never quoted it properly and made it follow on from the Gelpack statement by missing out this bit: "However, one former employee claims the decision to place the company into administration had little to do with Brexit."  

 

Quote

Have your cheap imaginary points and your LOLs, I'm not interested in wasting more time with you.

Well it would have been helpful if you quoted the article properly in the first place and didn't miss out the bits you didn't like.

 

As for glossing over, as stated when data is wrong and misused like this then there is little to discuss. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by apelike

[I1L2T3 10]

Arguing that Brexit isn’t impacting jobs is nuts. Complete madness.

 

It is affecting jobs. I work with companies every day that are relocating operations abroad. Dozens of companies in the last couple of years.