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Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

mort

 Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute. 

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16 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Maybe I'm over analysing this but Katya Adler on the BBC showed a copy of the draft statement of tomorrow's Council of Europe meeting with the Brexit extension date just filled in as (XX.XX.XXXX)

 

Could the XX in the month box, indicate October at the very earliest as the June date that Theresa May is asking for would have been represented by a single X?

Over analysing - here in France today's date would be written 09/04/2019. 

Edited by Longcol

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1 hour ago, Longcol said:

Over analysing - here in France today's date would be written 09/04/2019. 

Fair point!

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On ‎08‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 16:39, Car Boot said:

Working class people have been the victims of grinding and relentless attacks by political, business and financial elites since the referendum result, while affluent middle class Remain supporters (who never concerned themselves about income inequality before June 2016) attack the poor for not voting how their establishment overlords instructed.

 

The bosses magazine 'The Economist' was quite correct when it stated:

 

“The vote for Brexit looks like—and to some extent is—a cry of fury by those who have borne the burden of European integration without benefiting proportionally from its advantages”.

So what are the burden(s) of European integration ?

I can`t think of any.

The most oft quoted is "immigration", but what that really means is those hard working Europeans (usually from Eastern Europe) coming over here doing the jobs most Brit don`t want to do and then paying taxes for the privilege.....

Terrible.

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16 hours ago, Mister M said:

You've reminded me, Make UK which represents over 200,000 manufacturing companies in the UK said that a no deal Brexit would be 'catastrophic' for the industries and the people who work in them.

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/eef-make-uk-catastrophic-brexit/

 

Some of these companies will be in places like Sheffield.  Leaving the EU, especially with no deal would be bad Sheffield. 

How would mass unemployment be good for Sheffield?

This was obvious before the referendum. If people had bothered to look at the facts rather than listen to spin they would have known.  If we export to to countries we still have to adhere to their regs for the items we are selling to them.  Too many people were saying that countries would still want to sell to use which they do, but we are a tiny part of their sales and we would just pay more for their goods. All the facts are their on the EU website about legislation and guidance etc. I bet most people who voted Brexit don't even read that website or understand how business works. If they did, they wouldn't have voted out. I don't think its perfect but do understand the pros and cons and how they affect business, including the farming and fishing communities. Many people have shot themselves in the foot and are too stubborn to admit it or haven't researched the facts. Be careful what you wish for folks. You may well regret it! The ones that thought it was going to be easu leaving the EU; words fail me. Why would they make it easy?

7 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

So what are the burden(s) of European integration ?

I can`t think of any.

The most oft quoted is "immigration", but what that really means is those hard working Europeans (usually from Eastern Europe) coming over here doing the jobs most Brit don`t want to do and then paying taxes for the privilege.....

Terrible.

The irony is a lot of poor areas have had large EU funds to help get them up and running again. Various community buildings and other initiatives.  I can't agree more with your statement about hard working EU citizens coming over here to do the difficult, seasonal or low paid jobs some Brits aren't prepared to do.  

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7 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

So what are the burden(s) of European integration ?

I can`t think of any.

The most oft quoted is "immigration", but what that really means is those hard working Europeans (usually from Eastern Europe) coming over here doing the jobs most Brit don`t want to do and then paying taxes for the privilege.....

Terrible.

If you can't think of any burdens of EU integration, then I'm afraid you are as out of touch and remote from the lived experiences of the working class as the majority of our well lunched political establishment. 

 

You mentioned immigration. You didn't mention infrastructure. When did you last apply for social housing?

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5 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

If you can't think of any burdens of EU integration, then I'm afraid you are as out of touch and remote from the lived experiences of the working class as the majority of our well lunched political establishment. 

 

You mentioned immigration. You didn't mention infrastructure. When did you last apply for social housing?

None of those issues are caused by the EU.

 

They happen in spite of all the controls and procedures the EU allows us to implement but we choose not to.

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20 minutes ago, Chez2 said:

The irony is a lot of poor areas have had large EU funds to help get them up and running again. Various community buildings and other initiatives.  I can't agree more with your statement about hard working EU citizens coming over here to do the difficult, seasonal or low paid jobs some Brits aren't prepared to do.  

Anti-working class EU rhetoric. You are not comparing like with like. Nomadic EU workers (who are not prepared to join a union but are prepared to put up with low pay and poor conditions) view a seasonal, low paid job as as a temporary activity - concentrating as much labour into a short period as they can. 

 

Why? Because the financial rewards are so much greater for them than they would be for a UK worker. Simply because they can spend their UK earnings in their lower cost of living EU member state.

 

Wonderful for the bosses. Not so good for people in the towns and cities with infrastructure problems. 

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15 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

None of those issues are caused by the EU.

 

They happen in spite of all the controls and procedures the EU allows us to implement but we choose not to.

I never stated that those issues were caused by the EU. 

 

But they are certainly made worse by the bosses free movement of labour, which has a negative impact upon low-skilled British workers and especially non-EU British immigrant communities.

8 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

So what are the burden(s) of European integration ?

I can`t think of any.

The most oft quoted is "immigration", but what that really means is those hard working Europeans (usually from Eastern Europe) coming over here doing the jobs most Brit don`t want to do and then paying taxes for the privilege.....

Terrible.

Non unionised low skilled EU immigration can depress wages, place pressure on services and infrastructure and create community tension.

 

It is very lazy and simply wrong to pretend otherwise. 

 

If big business didn't benefit from immigration, there would be no immigration. But this benefit is at the expense of the working class and the exploited immigrants themselves.

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10 hours ago, Mister M said:

This morning O'Brien broke the news that Andrew Lilico, one of the economists who are wheeled out to give Brexit some 'credibility', is blaming the Queen for the Brexit mess:

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/brexiteers-blame-queen-for-mess/

 

Suzanne Evans, once a UKIP spokesperson agrees with him:

https://www.thenational.scot/politics/thejouker/17561630.why-the-queen-is-the-latest-target-for-hard-brexiteers/

 

So there you go. It's all the fault of her maj!

 

What a huge surprise. Anyone's fault but theirs :roll:

 

13 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

I never stated that those issues were caused by the EU. 

Of course, that why you made the point in reply to a comment about "the burdens of EU integration" :loopy::hihi:

 

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40 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

I never stated that those issues were caused by the EU. 

 

But they are certainly made worse by the bosses free movement of labour, which has a negative impact upon low-skilled British workers and especially non-EU British immigrant communities.

Non unionised low skilled EU immigration can depress wages, place pressure on services and infrastructure and create community tension.

 

It is very lazy and simply wrong to pretend otherwise. 

 

If big business didn't benefit from immigration, there would be no immigration. But this benefit is at the expense of the working class and the exploited immigrants themselves.

First part so you agree that we don’t need to leave the EU to fix it.

 

Second part proven not to be true. And the natural reaction of business will be to seek cheap labour from elsewhere if the supply from the EU is compromised.

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46 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

I never stated that those issues were caused by the EU. 

 

But they are certainly made worse by the bosses free movement of labour, which has a negative impact upon low-skilled British workers and especially non-EU British immigrant communities.

Non unionised low skilled EU immigration can depress wages, place pressure on services and infrastructure and create community tension.

 

It is very lazy and simply wrong to pretend otherwise. 

 

If big business didn't benefit from immigration, there would be no immigration. But this benefit is at the expense of the working class and the exploited immigrants themselves.

While I agree with quite a bit of this, and note that you don't blame the migrants themselves for this exploitation like some do, I think it's naïve to think leaving the EU will change anything. If the market wage for the least skilled jobs tops £10 an hour due to labour shortages then just about any government, especially a Tory one, will allow enough migration to bring wages down, because all governments just do the bidding of business, including Labour ones.

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2 minutes ago, Bob Arctor said:

While I agree with quite a bit of this, and note that you don't blame the migrants themselves for this exploitation like some do, I think it's naïve to think leaving the EU will change anything. If the market wage for the least skilled jobs tops £10 an hour due to labour shortages then just about any government, especially a Tory one, will allow enough migration to bring wages down, because all governments just do the bidding of business, including Labour ones.

How's that been working for business, lately? Say, over the last 3 years? ;)

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