Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

[ez8004 10]

6 hours ago, Car Boot said:

"This is democracy. We might not all like the result. I was a Remainer, but the minute we start ignoring the democratic will of the people in this country, we are slipping very quickly towards the kind of banana republic I don't want to live in."

 

Heidi Allen MP,  2017.

 

Heidi Allen has recently become the leader of 'Change UK - The Independent Group' a new political group which aims to maintain the failed status quo and prevent change from happening by ensuring the UK stays in the EU.

 

Heidi Allen has voted against removing hereditary peers from the House of Lords, voted to reduce benefits for the poorest in society, voted against a more proportional system for electing MPs, consistently voted against higher taxes on banks and consistently voted for more restrictive regulation of trade union activity.

 

Nice people these passionate Remainers.

 

Tony Benn was a passionate supporter of Leaving the pro-business EU.

 

Was he a nationalist?

She voted against House of Lords reform did she? Really?  Please explain how the hell she managed to do that. The House of Lords act 1999 was implemented in 1999. Nick Clegg tabled the House of Lords Reform Bill in 2012. Guess what, she wasn’t an MP until 2015. THREE YEARS after. 

 

Talking rubbish again on this point. 

 

Being as disingenuous as ever. I am all for a proportional representation in voting. But the dog’s dinner version we were offered in the AV referendum was the worst implementation I have seen. I too voted against it in that referendum. 

 

The restriction in trade union activity? Want to give an example? If you going to say that the threshold requirement needed to implement a strike as an example, then I would suggest you sit back down. That was not an unreasonable requirement to ensure that there is a sizeable proportion of the workforce agrees. I am a member of unite and I don’t have an issue with it.  

[hobinfoot 25]

🤡

1 minute ago, hobinfoot said:

It's ironic that parliament is voting today 1st of April. They the members couldn't miss this surely?  Fools to the left fools to the right some say aye and some say no. Hears to our 650🤡.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by hobinfoot

[L00b 441]

58 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

Which country or countries is going to replace the business we’ll lose with the EU then? You make it sound so simple yet offer zero alternatives. We are already losing the clearing of all Euro denominated transactions which is worth over a trillion euros, A TRILLION. 

I’m unsure why you’re having a go at Eater Sundae, because that’s what he was saying and (AFAIR) he’s not a Leaver, so it’s not up to him to come up with the alternative(s).

 

The countries are Germany, France, Ireland and Luxembourg, by the way. As announced by some (incl. me of course) before the referendum.

 

The biggest problem with services, financial or otherwise, and particularly their exporting to EU and non-EU customers, is non-tariff barriers. EU and SM membership dropped those just about completely. Brexit of any shape brings them back, never less so than with a no deal-Brexit (100% effective NTBs for many financial & legal services). Again, search earlier posts on the topic if of any interest, as that was amply discussed pre-referendum (and since).

 

It’s getting a bit tedious to see always the same arguments looping around in t’Brexit threads, without anything progressing the debate overall. Not a dig at you ez8004, just a general remark.

Edited April 1, 2019 by L00b

[bendix 10]

 

7 minutes ago, hobinfoot said:

🤡

 

 

The whole 'let's blame our politicians' for not being able to deliver Brexit is all very comforting but ignores the fact that the Brexit promised to Leave voters is undeliverable.

 

It's not their fault people have demanded something impossible to deliver.

 

 

[Padders 2,863]

14 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

She voted against House of Lords reform did she? Really?  Please explain how the hell she managed to do that. The House of Lords act 1999 was implemented in 1999. Nick Clegg tabled the House of Lords Reform Bill in 2012. Guess what, she wasn’t an MP until 2015. THREE YEARS after. 

 

Talking rubbish again on this point. 

 

Being as disingenuous as ever. I am all for a proportional representation in voting. But the dog’s dinner version we were offered in the AV referendum was the worst implementation I have seen. I too voted against it in that referendum. 

 

The restriction in trade union activity? Want to give an example? If you going to say that the threshold requirement needed to implement a strike as an example, then I would suggest you sit back down. That was not an unreasonable requirement to ensure that there is a sizeable proportion of the workforce agrees. I am a member of unite and I don’t have an issue with it.  

That criteria should have applied to the Brexit referendum , 60 / 40.

[melthebell 863]

11 minutes ago, bendix said:

 

 

The whole 'let's blame our politicians' for not being able to deliver Brexit is all very comforting but ignores the fact that the Brexit promised to Leave voters is undeliverable.

 

It's not their fault people have demanded something impossible to deliver.

 

 

Indeed, what I've always said, the government won't bring in something that will kill our economy

[geared 306]

12 minutes ago, bendix said:

 

 

The whole 'let's blame our politicians' for not being able to deliver Brexit is all very comforting but ignores the fact that the Brexit promised to Leave voters is undeliverable.

 

It's not their fault people have demanded something impossible to deliver.

 

 

but it was their fault for promising it in the first place.

[bendix 10]

6 minutes ago, geared said:

but it was their fault for promising it in the first place.

The biggest mistake was not so much allowing the referendum in the first place, but failing to put clear guidelines in such as an acceptable margin of victory etc.

 

However, MPs are now doing exactly what they are meant to be doing, and that is acting in a way that does everything they can do collectively to ensure the UK isnt harmed too much.  MPs are NOT our servants, so demanding they implement the will of the people is a sign that our form of democracy is not understood.  They are our representatives, and it is their job to make decisions on our behalf.

 

The sooner people grasp this fact, the better.

[L00b 441]

2 minutes ago, bendix said:

The biggest mistake was not so much allowing the referendum in the first place, but failing to put clear guidelines in such as an acceptable margin of victory etc.

 

However, MPs are now doing exactly what they are meant to be doing, and that is acting in a way that does everything they can do collectively to ensure the UK isnt harmed too much.  MPs are NOT our servants, so demanding they implement the will of the people is a sign that our form of democracy is not understood.  They are our representatives, and it is their job to make decisions on our behalf.

 

The sooner people grasp this fact, the better.

Such guidelines were not put in, because the referendum was intended to be consultative, not binding.

 

Cameron pacified scores of political opponents in 2015 into voting the EU Referendum Act through on this very basis, including eg the SNP.

 

The referendum wasn’t designed (legally speaking, as the EU referendum act 2015) for its outcome, either outcome, to be followed through. Hence the ensuing mess, once Theresa May grabbed no.10 and ran with the ERG.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

7 hours ago, Car Boot said:

Tony Benn was a passionate supporter of Leaving the pro-business EU.

 

Was he a nationalist?

Tony Benn also proposed sending UN troops into Ireland during the Troubles so he was not averse to having bonkers ideas.

[bendix 10]

5 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Tony Benn also proposed sending UN troops into Ireland during the Troubles so he was not averse to having bonkers ideas.

Benn wasn't a nationalist in the sense that Farage and Yaxley Lennon are nationalists.  However, like Corbyn, he was ideologically opposed to the EU as he saw it as part of some kind of neoliberal global capitalism construct which, inevitably, hamper the chances of creating true socialism in a member country.

 

 

[SnailyBoy 10]

'Winning the EU referendum was like 'winning' an STD. You can keep telling yourself that the STD was a price worth paying for brief a moment of ecstasy, but - unless treated/revoked - the long-term health implications will be hugely regrettable'

 

https://twitter.com/damocrat/status/1112663886338162688