Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

[Mister Gee 812]

 

[tinfoilhat 11]

42 minutes ago, RJRB said:

No they are not a figment of your imagination and I worked in steel and heavy engineering from 1965 onwards.

However year on year from that time such industries were in decline with wholesale closures,scaling down and passing into foreign ownership.

Perhaps I did see a time of reasonable optimism in the 60s,but this dissipated through the 70s and onwards.

Heavy Engineering ,shipbuilding ,auto engineering ,white goods ,Foundries were all in decline and I attended many an auction where our plant and equipment was snapped up for the Indian market.

No government has provided the long term backing needed for this country to be self sufficient and to serve the intermittent nature of large engineering projects.

Short term thinking ,asset stripping and outsourcing has killed our industry and I cannot see any prospect of creating a competitive manufacturing base in the future.

Do you own a British made washing machine? You can still buy them. Did you buy British Leyland car back in the 70s? 

 

[RJRB 688]

1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said:

Do you own a British made washing machine? You can still buy them. Did you buy British Leyland car back in the 70s? 

 

No and No

[tzijlstra 11]

7 hours ago, RJRB said:

No they are not a figment of your imagination and I worked in steel and heavy engineering from 1965 onwards.

However year on year from that time such industries were in decline with wholesale closures,scaling down and passing into foreign ownership.

Perhaps I did see a time of reasonable optimism in the 60s,but this dissipated through the 70s and onwards.

Heavy Engineering ,shipbuilding ,auto engineering ,white goods ,Foundries were all in decline and I attended many an auction where our plant and equipment was snapped up for the Indian market.

No government has provided the long term backing needed for this country to be self sufficient and to serve the intermittent nature of large engineering projects.

Short term thinking ,asset stripping and outsourcing has killed our industry and I cannot see any prospect of creating a competitive manufacturing base in the future.

Sorry, but nonsense. A certain form of ‘manufacturing’ was sold off, the UK is one of the world leaders in added value manufacturing though. There is a reason that F1 teams are headquartered here for example. Unfortunately it is these specialised businesses that might well suffer from Brexit the most.

9 hours ago, apelike said:

Ahh.. A CBeebies moment, though I was right! 

 

Its similar to Forgemasters, they would not have been able to get a loan unless it was with government help.

Addendum, they could have under EU rules, not under Javid’s rules. Just a reminder that it was also Javid who blocked increased tariffs on cheap Chinese steel, not the EU...

[RJRB 688]

5 hours ago, tzijlstra said:

Sorry, but nonsense. A certain form of ‘manufacturing’ was sold off, the UK is one of the world leaders in added value manufacturing though. There is a reason that F1 teams are headquartered here for example. Unfortunately it is these specialised businesses that might well suffer from Brexit the most.

Addendum, they could have under EU rules, not under Javid’s rules. Just a reminder that it was also Javid who blocked increased tariffs on cheap Chinese steel, not the EU...

Without going too far off the thread ,there seems to be some thoughts that Britain can once again regain its position as a leading industrial and manufacturing power.

All I can see is not in the foreseeable future.

The certain form of manufacturing that shrunk or disappeared over the last few decades is not coming back to our shores.

I do not doubt that we have talent and can compete in some niche areas,but the basic building blocks of heavy engineering have been allowed to reduce due to lack of investment.

How many major building projects have been constructed from imported structural steel.

We have a deserved reputation for innovation and skills but not so good on supporting manufacturing.

[apelike 10]

6 hours ago, tzijlstra said:

Addendum, they could have under EU rules, not under Javid’s rules. Just a reminder that it was also Javid who blocked increased tariffs on cheap Chinese steel, not the EU...

Oh I agree, but was trying to point out that both have sought a government loan as it would have been very unlikely that they would get one from elsewhere. The last sentence is a bit immaterial in this.

[I1L2T3 10]

The single key fact everybody needs to know is that the Tories planned to remove almost all import tariffs if no deal happened.

 

Once that happens then the argument for state support of all impacted industries is dead. You are affectively throwing those industries under the bus. Saying you are willing to see them die.

 

That is how strong and wrong their ideology is.

 

Dangerous, evil people.

[apelike 10]

11 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

The single key fact everybody needs to know is that the Tories planned to remove almost all import tariffs if no deal happened.

 

Once that happens then the argument for state support of all impacted industries is dead. You are affectively throwing those industries under the bus. Saying you are willing to see them die.

The argument may be there but which industries currently get state support?

[I1L2T3 10]

30 minutes ago, apelike said:

The argument may be there but which industries currently get state support?

https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-events/the-uks-industrial-strategy

 

There would be little point in that strategy if the government actively promoted imports by removing most tariffs. 

 

Same for agriculture

 

It’s all in Minford’s plan

[apelike 10]

21 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-events/the-uks-industrial-strategy

 

There would be little point in that strategy if the government actively promoted imports by removing most tariffs. 

Sorry but I'm not quite understanding what you are making out here. That strategy is not about state funding but promotion, and as far as I know we do not have any tariffs now anyway.

[I1L2T3 10]

1 minute ago, apelike said:

Sorry but I'm not quite understanding what you are making out here. That strategy is not about state funding but promotion, and as far as I know we do not have any tariffs now anyway.

Nope. Read it very carefully.

 

Its about support, promotion and investment in skills and infrastructure.

 

The point is there’d be no point in doing any of that if you’re throwing most of our industry under the bus.

 

You can’t wriggle out of it. If you support the Tories you are risking the destruction of our industry. As I said in the first post you replied to they planned to remove almost all import tariffs.

 

I’ll repeat this too: dangerous, evil people

[apelike 10]

8 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Nope. Read it very carefully.

 

Its about support, promotion and investment in skills and infrastructure.

It may be about that but is is part of an overall strategy and not individual state aid to a company, which makes it a different ball game.

 

8 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

 As I said in the first post you replied to they planned to remove almost all import tariffs.

But do we have import tariffs now?