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Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

mort

 Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute. 

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2 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Then all those steelworks, engineering firms, cutlery factories, shipyards and mills must be a figment of my imagination - sorry!

Thought I remembered visiting many of them in my job when they stretched from the Wicker Goods Station, all the way to Tinsley and beyond

Although I did hear that there is a lot of amnesia about these days.

Then that shows who the fools are which makes my point

2 wrongs dont make a right, being foolish twice doesnt make it right. we need to go forwards rather than back to some mythical land of unicorns

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13 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Then all those steelworks, engineering firms, cutlery factories, shipyards and mills must be a figment of my imagination - sorry!

Thought I remembered visiting many of them in my job when they stretched from the Wicker Goods Station, all the way to Tinsley and beyond

Although I did hear that there is a lot of amnesia about these days.

 

You don't think we're going back to those days and heavy industries do you? 

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33 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Then all those steelworks, engineering firms, cutlery factories, shipyards and mills must be a figment of my imagination - sorry!

Thought I remembered visiting many of them in my job when they stretched from the Wicker Goods Station, all the way to Tinsley and beyond

Although I did hear that there is a lot of amnesia about these days.

Then that shows who the fools are which makes my point

I was a teenager in the sixties and remember them well,  when we  left school there were plenty of jobs for everyone. In the 70's I voted to stay in the EU. I don't believe that leaving then would have made things better or that leaving now will improve my childrens and grandchildrens future. Those days you remember are long over and we need to move on.  My children were born in the 1980's and when they were old enough to  look for jobs their choices where limited. I do not believe that being in the EU caused that, you need to look at our governments (both Tory and Labour)  for the failings in the UK.

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28 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

You don't think we're going back to those days and heavy industries do you? 

What's wrong with heavy industry?

Someones got to make things and and it could just as well be us as anyone else.

Keep buying everything from abroad and we just get poorer and poorer with massive balance of trade deficits.

We will have turned from a manufacturing nation into a nation of idle loafers,  putting our feet up whilst we go bust.

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6 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

What's wrong with heavy industry?

Someones got to make things and and it could just as well be us as anyone else.

Keep buying everything from abroad and we just get poorer and poorer with massive balance of trade deficits.

We will have turned from a manufacturing nation into a nation of idle loafers,  putting our feet up whilst we go bust.

complete crap, leavers are happy to bankrupt the country following a bing bag full of lies and mistruths, and its the main leavers who will profit from it, but the obsessed extremists are either blind to this fact, or ignorant.

NOTHING that comes from any form of brexit will leave us better off...or indeed the same that we currently have

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16 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

What's wrong with heavy industry?

Someones got to make things and and it could just as well be us as anyone else.

Keep buying everything from abroad and we just get poorer and poorer with massive balance of trade deficits.

We will have turned from a manufacturing nation into a nation of idle loafers,  putting our feet up whilst we go bust.

You do know that we are the 6th largest economy in the world, don’t you?

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2 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

What's wrong with heavy industry?

Someones got to make things and and it could just as well be us as anyone else.

Keep buying everything from abroad and we just get poorer and poorer with massive balance of trade deficits.

We will have turned from a manufacturing nation into a nation of idle loafers,  putting our feet up whilst we go bust.

Do you know who wants to work in a mill? I had a similar conversation with someone  and when I enquired if they wanted their daughters working in a mill they were appalled at the idea - and that's before you factor in the idea that they will be competing with workers in Bangladesh.

 

And we've either lost the skills for ship building - certainly the infrastructure to build ships. Where's the money coming from for new dock yards? Who will be working g in them? The idle loafers of which you speak? Open up some coal mines? Good luck staffing them, it would be worked in the main by immigrants.

 

We do other things now, we work with - like it or not - a globalised economy. We've carved a niche for ourselves, and we are about to flush it all down the bog to chase a dream that died in the 70s. 

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14 minutes ago, melthebell said:

complete crap, leavers are happy to bankrupt the country following a bing bag full of lies and mistruths, and its the main leavers who will profit from it, but the obsessed extremists are either blind to this fact, or ignorant.

NOTHING that comes from any form of brexit will leave us better off...or indeed the same that we currently have

Isn't it amazing that anyone with a different view to yours is an extremist?

We got lies from both sides - that's what politicians do.

So your economist credentials tell you who will profit and who will lose - what credentials are these or is it just guesswork?

If we stay in Europe, we won't have the same situation that we currently have anyway - everything's going to  change but the remainers try to keep that quiet.

14 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

You do know that we are the 6th largest economy in the world, don’t you?

And that tells us what?

We were always one of the worlds largest economies before we joined the EU

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If a massive economy like the US is struggling to compete with the Far East on steel prices even with Trump skewing the market with tariffs, do you seriously think the UK can compete? And how are we going to fire the furnaces? Unless we reopen the coal mines (which incidentally we would have to import Labour from abroad to dig the coal as British workers would not do it) we will have to import coal to.

 

The UK games industry turns over more in a single year than the steel industry did in it’s entire history. The economic future of the UK lies in financial services, banking, small scale high-end manufacturing, IT and innovation.

 

We can’t afford to go back to heavy engineering, even if we wanted to.

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15 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Isn't it amazing that anyone with a different view to yours is an extremist?

We got lies from both sides - that's what politicians do.

So your economist credentials tell you who will profit and who will lose - what credentials are these or is it just guesswork?

If we stay in Europe, we won't have the same situation that we currently have anyway - everything's going to  change but the remainers try to keep that quiet.

And that tells us what?

We were always one of the worlds largest economies before we joined the EU

no, the ones who are extremists are the ones obsessed with the EU, in twisting things, in turning everything about the EU in negatives, in believing every lie they read about the EU, not accepting facts when told them.

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2 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

If it's a mythical past that didn't really exist, how do you remember much of it.

I was born in 1940 into a very poor, one parent family and from the early fifties things got better for all of us, our friends and our neighbours. That's not mythical or rose tinted,  it happened.

We can't  go back to that past but we can get stuck in and recreate a proud country where we rebuild our manufacturing base and make our own rules again.

Most of the countries in the world are not members of the European Union and they seem to manage fine. Do you think we are too useless to do the same? I don't

I remember a time when life was a lot more simple in a lot of ways, and people made the best of what they had.

 

But it was tough. I also remember a time of limited choices in life where society was more stratified, I remember industries being decimated by Far East competition, I remember my dad telling me about failure after failure of big national projects, of substandard British products nobody wanted to buy. The days when simple thing like a car, a holiday, a washing machine or a colour TV were luxuries. A time where houses didn’t have central heating or double glazing. A time of power cuts, people being laid off, industrial strife.

 

The list goes on and on and on.

 

Do you really want to try and sell that to our youngsters? Really?

 

Good luck

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46 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

 And that tells us what?

We were always one of the worlds largest economies before we joined the EU

Largely due to our history as an empire. At the time we joined Europe in the 70s, we were in serious economic and financial trouble.

 

Whether you care to admit it or not, our 40 year membership of the EEC and then the EU has benefited our economy enormously. Have you ever stopped to think that our struggle to negotiate a deal with the EU may not be because of an intransigent Barnier & Co but because as soon as we triggered Article 50 we shot ourselves in the head and lost any bargaining power.

 

As I’ve often said, if you crash your car on the way to a dealership to part exchange it, you can’t expect the dealer to offer you the same money that you’d get if the car wasn’t damaged.

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