Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

[Lockdoctor 10]

13 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

That is because nobody really had a clue about what leaving the EU actually entailed.

 

Any senior politician who at the time, had stood up in Parliament during the Article 50 debate in 2016 and warned that this was very dangerous nonsense, would have a much greater political standing in August 2019.

 

I have always said that it was an act of great political cowardice by both Labour and the Conservatives to take a marginal and inconclusive referendum result as a mandate to do so much damage to the UK. Corbyn’s complicity in this makes him unfit to lead a Remain Labour Party in a general election. Labour’s party conference next month will undoubtedly make remaining in the EU, Labour policy for a general election, and once that is done the party needs to remove Corbyn within a very short time if it wants to win the coming general election.

Making Labour a  Remain Party isn't  going to go down well with Labour voters who voted to leave the EU.

 

4 minutes ago, ads36 said:

Parliament voted to trigger article 50.

 

parliament also voted down the withdrawal agreement - the only option on the table.

The default legal position is to leave the EU without a deal which would have happened on 29th March  if Theresa May hadn't asked for an extension for the Article 50 period.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Lockdoctor

[Pettytom 1]

32 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Your post doesn't make any sense.  I clearly stated Parliament overwhelmingly voted to Trigger Article 50 which went along with our peoples democratic wishes which is to leave the EU.

If you don’t understand my post, try looking at yours again.

 

Specifically the rather odd bit where you suggest that parliament has voted to ignore itself if it doesn’t like no deal. 

 

You cant be in favour of democracy and ignore the will of the elected House of Commons.

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 minute ago, Pettytom said:

If you don’t understand my post, try looking at yours again.

 

Specifically the rather odd bit where you suggest that parliament has voted to ignore itself if it doesn’t like no deal. 

 

You cant be in favour of democracy and ignore the will of the elected House of Commons.

Of course you can. This is brexit Britain where sovereignty rules unless it doesn't do what you want it do, then it must be circumvented.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

22 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Making Labour a  Remain Party isn't  going to go down well with Labour voters who voted to leave the EU.

It certainly isn’t, but given that the vast  majority of Labour supporters (65%) voted to remain, it would be unwise for Labour to be anything other than a Remain party.

[Pettytom 1]

5 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

It certainly isn’t, but given that the vast  majority of Labour supporters (65%) voted to remain, it would be unwise for Labour to be anything other than a Remain party.

I suspect that there are enough folks who have changed their minds about wanting Brexit, to make this a very minor electoral risk

[Top Cats Hat 10]

9 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

I suspect that there are enough folks who have changed their minds about wanting Brexit, to make this a very minor electoral risk

The maths were done on this six months ago when Corbyn was told that he may lose one or two seats to the Brexit Party in places like Sunderland and Barnsley but most seats would be retained by Labour, but with much lower majorities, largely due to Labour Leave supporters not voting, rather than splitting their votes between Farage, the Conservatives and the handful of far-right offerings. 

 

On the other hand, a clearly Remain Labour Party would eat into both the Lib Dem and Conservative vote, particularly in the South where many marginals would be picked up. This is why it was inevitable that Labour would move towards a second referendum and eventually a fully Remain party.

 

 

[Magilla 510]

1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said:

Oliver Robbins and Theresa May were in charge for negotiating.

Only after Davis and Raab failed to deliver.

[Eater Sundae 12]

13 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The maths were done on this six months ago when Corbyn was told that he may lose one or two seats to the Brexit Party in places like Sunderland and Barnsley but most seats would be retained by Labour, but with much lower majorities, largely due to Labour Leave supporters not voting, rather than splitting their votes between Farage, the Conservatives and the handful of far-right offerings. 

 

On the other hand, a clearly Remain Labour Party would eat into both the Lib Dem and Conservative vote, particularly in the South where many marginals would be picked up. This is why it was inevitable that Labour would move towards a second referendum and eventually a fully Remain party.

 

 

Which would be a total irrelevance if the country has already crashed and burned on 31st October.

 

Unfortunately, it could turn out to be too little, too late

[Lockdoctor 10]

37 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

If you don’t understand my post, try looking at yours again.

 

Specifically the rather odd bit where you suggest that parliament has voted to ignore itself if it doesn’t like no deal. 

 

You cant be in favour of democracy and ignore the will of the elected House of Commons.

You don't seem to understand that Parliament have already voted in favour of the UK leaving the EU without a deal when they voted in favour of Triggering Article  50.  The will of Parliament was to Trigger Article 50 which by doing so they agreed to implement the democratic decision the UK people made on 23rd June 2016.  By blocking the implementation of BREXIT Parliament are backsliding on decisions they have already overwhelmingly voted in favour of.

 

39 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

It certainly isn’t, but given that the vast  majority of Labour supporters (65%) voted to remain, it would be unwise for Labour to be anything other than a Remain party.

The vast majority of Labour voters in London voted to remain in the EU but that doesn't mirror how the rest of Labour voters throughout the country voted in the democratic EU referendum. It would be most unwise for Labour to become a Remain party and lose support north of Watford gap.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

13 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

The vast majority of Labour voters in London voted to remain in the EU but that doesn't mirror how the rest of Labour voters throughout the country 

The vast majority of Labour voters throughout the country voted to remain in the EU and a General Election is a poll of ALL citizens eligible to vote, not just those in Sunderland and Barnsley.

 

Besides, you have already lost that argument as Labour is now well on the road to becoming a Remain Party.

[Pettytom 1]

33 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

You don't seem to understand that Parliament have already voted in favour of the UK leaving the EU without a deal when they voted in favour of Triggering Article  50.  The will of Parliament was to Trigger Article 50 which by doing so they agreed to implement the democratic decision the UK people made on 23rd June 2016.  By blocking the implementation of BREXIT Parliament are backsliding on decisions they have already overwhelmingly voted in favour of.

 

The vast majority of Labour voters in London voted to remain in the EU but that doesn't mirror how the rest of Labour voters throughout the country voted in the democratic EU referendum. It would be most unwise for Labour to become a Remain party and lose support north of Watford gap.

We shall see.

 

(On both points)

 

However, it is interesting that you make so much of having changed your mind, yet you are so intolerant of others who change theirs.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Pettytom

[Magilla 510]

1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

However, it is interesting that you make so much of having changed your mind, yet you are so intolerant of others who change theirs.

Here's a leave voter on another forum I visit:

 

When I voted leave I was told we could be like Norway. A careful stepping back from the EU and have more money for our services. I did not vote for this ridiculous no deal and complete waste of money. My vote has been hijacked by a load of deluded crackpots. Revoke A50 and let us get on with more important stuff like crime and the NHS...

 

Of course, no-one did, it was specifically ruled out by all the leave campaigns.

 

There is no democratic mandate to leave the EU without a deal.. or even one to leave that makes the UK worse off.

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Magilla